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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#101

Post by zahlman »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #43

It also causes roads to be damaged/destroyed FAR faster due to the vehicales on average weighing significantly more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law It also simply moves the pollution to places like Africa where the extremely dirty lithium mining is externalized away from wealthy westerners. Environmental externalization.

The lithium mining is surely not causing anywhere near as much pollution as fossil fuel burning. If you think it's actually significant, please show relevant studies and/or analysis.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#102

Post by al_borland »

alephnerd wrote: post #10
ares623 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon. I cannot and will not own a smart car any more I want to own a smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster.

> I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon What business case is there for a "dumb" EV? By using touchscreens and software for most functionality, you dramatically reduce your supply chain overhead and better enhance margins (instead of managing the supply chain for dozens of extruded buttons, now you manage the supply chain of a single LCD touchscreen). This was a major optimization that Chinese automotive manufa…

The business case is the same as every “dumb” device since the dawn of time, up until maybe 10 years ago.

Sell and product with enough margin to make money. Don’t sell it at or below cost, then spy on your users and sell them to the real customers, the advertisers.

“Dumb” stuff has a very simple and honest business model. Market the cars by exposing what every other car brand is actually doing.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#103

Post by catgary »

lagniappe wrote: post #97

I want the future to focus more on the brakes and tire dust, and the increase in cancers and other problems by people who live near busy roads or highways experience. Nobody studies this, and combustion or battery, everyone is affected by it. Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard.

EVs should do much better on brake dust thanks to regenerative braking, no?

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#104

Post by zahlman »

braincat31415 wrote: post #39

Has the study made an effort to exclude any other factors? For example, a reduction in commute during the covid years?

> For the analysis, the researchers divided California into 1,692 neighborhoods, using a geographic unit similar to zip codes. They obtained publicly available data from the state’s Department of Motor Vehicles on the number of ZEVs registered in each neighborhood. ZEVs include full-battery electric cars, plug-in hybrids and fuel-cell cars, but not heavier duty vehicles like delivery trucks and semi trucks.

> Next, the research team obtained data from the Tropospheric Monitoring Instrument (TROPOMI), a high-resolution satellite sensor that provides daily, global measurements of NO₂ and other pollutants. They used this data to calculate annual average NO₂ levels in each California neighborhood from 2019 to 2023.

> Over the study period, a typical neighborhood gained 272 ZEVs, with most neighborhoods adding between 18 and 839. For every 200 new ZEVs registered, NO₂ levels dropped 1.1%, a measurable improvement in air quality.

Seems pretty clear to me that that's controlled for.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#105

Post by Espressosaurus »

catgary wrote: post #103
lagniappe wrote: post #97

I want the future to focus more on the brakes and tire dust, and the increase in cancers and other problems by people who live near busy roads or highways experience. Nobody studies this, and combustion or battery, everyone is affected by it. Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard.

EVs should do much better on brake dust thanks to regenerative braking, no?

But heavier so worse on the tires.

It isn’t intuitive that they’d be better off, and they might be worse on this particular dimension.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#106

Post by chaostheory »

groundzeros2015 wrote: post #90
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

> No surprises. What about all the resources and people used to develop the cars?

It’s probably still more net efficient in the long run. Besides, the main advantage EVs bring isn’t being more environmentally friendly. The main advantage is that it allows a nation to have more flexibility with its energy sources. i.e. an EV can run on anything that can generate electricity like coal or natural gas, while ICE cars mostly only run on gasoline.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#107

Post by Der_Einzige »

Aurornis wrote: post #96
Der_Einzige wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Americans take their cat off on purpose for louder noises. Additionally, a lot of conservatives love to "Roll coal", and literally will shit up the environment on purpose just because they feel schadenfreude from pissing of an environmentalist.

> A lot of Americans take their cat off on purpose for louder noises. Some people remove catalytic converters when they install a performance exhaust. Nobody is doing it for louder noises because the muffler portion is what dampens the sound. Also I wouldn’t say it’s “a lot of Americans”. We have emissions inspections in most major cities and your car won’t pass if you remove the catalytic converter. They can now det…

I know a LOT of people personally who swap their exhaust in and out just for emissions inspections. That's the meta.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#108

Post by Der_Einzige »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #56
Der_Einzige wrote: post #43

It also causes roads to be damaged/destroyed FAR faster due to the vehicales on average weighing significantly more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law It also simply moves the pollution to places like Africa where the extremely dirty lithium mining is externalized away from wealthy westerners. Environmental externalization.

Only poorly designed EV's are significantly heavier. A Tesla 3 and a BMW 3 are about the same weight.

BMWs are all pigfat today. Compare it to a proper sports car like a Miata.

Most cars are far too heavy and should be made lighter. Only Mazda seems to understand this and that's why the Mazda SUVs/sedans are by far the best driving vehicles in their class.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#109

Post by digiown »

didip wrote: post #73

Anyone can argue ICE vs EV all night long but there's only 1 metric I care about, in favor of EV: When I am going to take my son to school, he doesn't have to smell the gas and the fumes from the exhaust in the garage.

Most of the exhaust fumes your son smells near school is going to come from other people's cars though.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#110

Post by dgacmu »

lagniappe wrote: post #97

I want the future to focus more on the brakes and tire dust, and the increase in cancers and other problems by people who live near busy roads or highways experience. Nobody studies this, and combustion or battery, everyone is affected by it. Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard.

It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust.

Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit.

Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/4...

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