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Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

coloradosun.com

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Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#101

Post by mothballed »

quickthrowman wrote: post #100
mothballed wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how the 'black market' ones I've seen operate. And I've seen a lot from when I visited the circuit of underground artist-related events when I lived in chicago. They are shockingly common in areas with extremely high rents and an oversupply of unused commercial space. They might subdivide it 12 ways, but there is one shared kitchen for a whole floor and maybe 2 toilets, 2 sinks and the residents are going…

> These are all easily overcome problems for people utilizing an ounce of civil disobedience with regards to the code. And yes I have personally done all the design and plumbing and electric for multi-structure properties (though not the black market ones). It didn’t work out so great in Oakland at the Ghost Ship, 36 people died in a similar arrangement. Building code is written in blood, things are done a certain wa…

36 people dead is a rounding error compared to mortality from people on the streets due to lack of access to housing. Every time I bring up this topic, someone trots out the Ghost Ship like a broken record, ignoring what I said about the mortality rate of people on the streets because shit rolls downhill when people higher up the socio-economic pyramid go the next rung down in available housing. Bastiat has an excellent writing on this fallacious logic you use, titled "That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen."

Not having housing didn't work out great for 700+ dead homeless people per year that are estimated to die of hypothermia.

The code inspectors have blood in their hands. You may be morally or ethically against bypassing the codes, but bypassing it can save lives.

Black market housing is done for a reason, a very good one, and one that saves lives. Fortunately where I live, I built a house without any inspections whatsoever, so none of the code psychopaths were even around to make their absurd case about the ghost ship, and that is the only reason why I was even able to afford to own a house.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#102

Post by gedy »

someuser54541 wrote: post #5
rbanffy wrote: post #2

Looks like there is an opportunity to convert a lot of that into residential space.

I read something at some point that it's more expensive to convert these into residential buildings than it is to literally demolish and rebuild. I'm not entirely sure how that math works out, or why, because one would think it couldn't be that complicated. Maybe someone here knows more about this.

I think a factor is people are dumb and do stupid things in homes vs office, and greater fire risk, plumbing emergencies, etc

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#103

Post by lotsoweiners »

ottah wrote: post #81
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also live in Denver. The biggest problem with downtown isn't zoning (though that may be a part), it's the homeless people. Who's going to want to go hang out on 16th when there's a dude asking you for money on every street corner? I don't know what the solution is, but it seems clear to me that revitalizing downtown starts with removing the "I'm going to have to deal with vagrants" factor.

Homelessness is a choice that society has made. We have enough excess that we can feed and house these people. People are a lot less scary when they have some measure of security.

It’s the raving drug addicts that cause the problem. That is a choice those people made.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#104

Post by lotsoweiners »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #65
f1shy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything has pros and cons. I lived in both setups, and the mixed residential/commertial/recreational can be very noisy. Also big parks, if not well illuminated, become unsafe for the families around.

>mixed residential/commertial/recreational can be very noisy. I'd rather live in a somewhat 'noisy' vibrant neighborhood where I can walk to shops or restaurants than an absolutely dead residential cul-de-sac where I have to literally drive miles to the nearest amenity. If the noise bothers you at night, get a sound machine or install triple pane windows. I understand having industrial separate from everything else,…

The good news for you is that you can live like this in almost any major city. Those of us that absolutely want to drive places and live in SFH zoned areas can also do that. Win win.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#105

Post by lotsoweiners »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #90
renewiltord wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did I. But I think the median American acts to not raise their child like that.

Well it’s time to rethink that then. Necessity is the mother of all invention, and at one point it’ll be a necessity to downsize if you want an affordable home.

Or move somewhere with bigger homes at a more affordable price.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#106

Post by direwolf20 »

lotsoweiners wrote: post #104
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>mixed residential/commertial/recreational can be very noisy. I'd rather live in a somewhat 'noisy' vibrant neighborhood where I can walk to shops or restaurants than an absolutely dead residential cul-de-sac where I have to literally drive miles to the nearest amenity. If the noise bothers you at night, get a sound machine or install triple pane windows. I understand having industrial separate from everything else,…

The good news for you is that you can live like this in almost any major city. Those of us that absolutely want to drive places and live in SFH zoned areas can also do that. Win win.

Why would you want to have to drive everywhere?

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#107

Post by ethbr1 »

browningstreet wrote: post #36
mattcantstop wrote: post #14

I think Denver (I live here) is an example of our horrible zoning. We have entirely focused our cities (especially Denver and RTD (Regional Transportation District)) around people commuting in for work. This is one of the main principles of BAD design, where you create an entire area around close to a single use (offices). That creates a very fragile city. This "single use" zoning that the US proliferated makes us re…

> I went to Park am Gleisdreieck in Berlin and stayed in a multi-family unit right along the park That's a favorite running spot of mine when I'm in Berlin. It's also along a great bus line, close to gyms, a technology museum, a bio market, Victoria Park and not far from Tempelhof. But that little park shines on its own. And the cars parked along the road are down a half level so you don't feel surrounded by parked c…

> And the cars parked along the road are down a half level so you don't feel surrounded by parked cars.

Putting parks half a level above (or below) street level is a surprisingly easy hack for vastly improving the experience. I wish more places did this.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#108

Post by cal_dent »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #68

Ok, sounds like normal 'creative destruction' to me. Time to raze useless office space and build housing in it's place. Also, I don't get how companies can make such a big song and dance about their climate commitments on the one hand while simultaneously insisting on RTO on the other. The greenest commute is one that never happens. If the tax code needs to change to give companies credit for their employees cutting…

Playing devil's advocate a little bit (only just), but razing buildings will not do much for climate commitments either

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#109

Post by wing-_-nuts »

jmye wrote: post #99
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic is a mess in Tokyo? Ambulance response times are typically under 10m in japan, so not sure the relevance there. Also the entire point of living in a dense neighborhood is that one is able to address many of your day to day needs without driving. >I guess people should vote by choosing to live where they want I'd have no problem with this if dense, multi-use zoning were common. As it is, very few places in the…

… So live where you want. I do, and it’s a SFH neighborhood. We don’t all need to live in Kowloon City, just because that’s what you like. So tired of this strident bullshit (“and SFH zoning should not exist”) from people who can’t seem to figure out other people exist and have thoughts and preferences, too.

I'm just going to copy and paste the end of my last comment since it seems you didn't read it

>I'd have no problem with this if dense, multi-use zoning were common. As it is, very few places in the US are as livable as much of Europe and the more developed parts of Asia.

It's easy to say 'live where you want' when your preferred housing isn't illegal in most of the US.

Re: Downtown Denver's office vacancy rate grows to 38.2%

#110

Post by wing-_-nuts »

cal_dent wrote: post #108
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #68

Ok, sounds like normal 'creative destruction' to me. Time to raze useless office space and build housing in it's place. Also, I don't get how companies can make such a big song and dance about their climate commitments on the one hand while simultaneously insisting on RTO on the other. The greenest commute is one that never happens. If the tax code needs to change to give companies credit for their employees cutting…

Playing devil's advocate a little bit (only just), but razing buildings will not do much for climate commitments either

Replacing unused office space with dense multifamily housing would benefit the climate long term as city dwellers have a much lower carbon footprint. Not to mention that they've gotten good enough building with engineered timber that they can safely build midrises with the stuff. No need for concrete.
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