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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#101

Post by jacquesm »

tehjoker wrote: post #90
jacquesm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all. The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty l…

China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

> China is much less likely to attack civilians.

They were pretty happy to attack their own civilians, I see no reason to think why that would be different abroad.

> Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others.

I'm not projecting, merely being cautious. Besides, I have no illusion about either America or Israel doing something similar, especially not with their current upper cadre but this subthread is about China).

> I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds.

I would imagine it isn't. See also: partnering with Putin in the war with Ukraine.

> America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

Yes, but they're not alone in that.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#102

Post by itsthecourier »

kulahan wrote: post #47
qiqitori wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Re…

saw an xpeng playing music outside the car, not inside, for beach parties

and, this is not a joke, truly: the seat gave me a massage.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#103

Post by Braxton1980 »

linksnapzz wrote: post #96
thaumasiotes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be too concerned. Hyundai used to be synonymous with "garbage".

People who have purchased Hyundai/Kia products w/ the GDI Theta II engine would, perhaps, take issue with "used to be".

One engine issue due to a manufacturing flaw shouldn't be enough to counter their massive change in produt lines over the years

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#104

Post by jacquesm »

anonzzzies wrote: post #98
dottjt wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

I do not think it is paranoia. But we can have this from anywhere. American devices, EU devices; if I cannot analyse the firmware, ICs etc, what is going to guarantee these are not remotely exploitable. Even if Porsche never built such a thing on purpose, the car is connected so someone can break in, hack it and do stuff including possible overhead the battery so it ignites. It does not have to be on purpose quality…

People don't realize that every device with a LiPo is only one (possibly malicious) update away from becoming a fuse.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#105

Post by anonzzzies »

tehjoker wrote: post #90
jacquesm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all. The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty l…

China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

in case of war, you cannot know that; if they can blow up millions of phones or routers (setting houses on fire) or ignite cars? i agree with you that currently there would be no reason to even project such an image: better to win with trade and trinkets and dialog. I would say thats always the case but he ho.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#106

Post by maxdo »

German cars have lost their technological edge. They can't even build their own infotainment systems anymore. They're paying billions to China to do it for them.

I can't overstate how catastrophically stupid this is. Paying what they consider smaller competitors real cash to build core software, instead of developing that capability in-house or acquiring a few startups with decent engineering talent.

This isn't just a bad decision. It reveals a completely dysfunctional decision-making process and a total absence of technical ambition.

People who say but "Porche/Mercedes/etc.." has this design. Luxury segment is not coming from nowhere. This is the same reason british luxury cars are gone essentially. It will take some time, but EU built cars will be in a constant decline.

What's even more fun, they don't want to protect their own market the same way chinese did.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#107

Post by kjellsbells »

appplication wrote: post #43
ericd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

The issue is not actual quality, it’s perceived quality. Chinese companies will fight decades of history and negative perception to reach top of the market consumers, a segment obsessed with perception.

Then again, it's been done before.

- Japanese consumer goods were perceived as junk until the tipping point was reached, and then they were perceived as high-quality, easily equalling or surpassing Western goods. That took ~30 years (1950 to 1980, say). Older readers will recall the controversy over Akio Morita's (Morita-san being the founder of Sony) statements in the book "The Japan that can Say No" (edit: see [0]), which seems strangely prescient in the sense that it ignited a lot of (US) debate around dependence on foreign semiconductors.

- Then there was Taiwan, again, a 30 year cycle from about 1970 to 2000. Taiwan used to be known for cheap textiles, consumer dross, and suchlike. Not now...

My point is that the way to get better at products is to make them and make them and make them, and eventually an export-led country reaches a tipping point where the consumers flip over, and their perception changes.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Japan_That_Can_Say_No

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#108

Post by linksnapzz »

sdwr wrote: post #15
appplication wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

Selling the most cars will eventually translate into making the best cars, with the compounding experience and network effects.

At the time the US was making the most cars in the world...quality varied widely, to be generous.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#109

Post by charlie0 »

kulahan wrote: post #47
qiqitori wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Re…

Lol, 1 to 4 is just called "knowing how to drive". These cameras aren't a serious value add unless you're driving a massive tank, err car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#110

Post by jazzyjackson »

dottjt wrote: post #63
jacquesm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind paying more for a European product, and as for the 'poor long term reliability': we don't know what the long term reliability of Chinese vehicles is yet. Not that it really matters, my car is 27 years old this year and I won't be getting another one but that has to do with wanting a car that is doing what I want it to do rather than what it wants to do.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

Certainly anything that downloads over the air updates. I'm not mad that our government turned down import of EVs from a country that became an adversary
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