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Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

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Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#101

Post by saubeidl »

pessimizer wrote: post #80
joduplessis wrote: post #26

I wish Europe would just push back. More than what they are currently. There is so much potential there, but somehow the EU all look at the US as some form of idealogical father figure. Excuse the hyperbolic-talk.

The fact is that there is no potential there. Europe has no leverage over the US. It is not holding back anything, it has nothing. Somehow when the US went to war with Russia, it ended up completing the conquest of Europe. Europe used to just be stagnant. Now it is stagnant and isolated from everywhere except the US, and the US treats it accordingly.

Europe has, in no particular order:

- ASML

- Nukes

- Large proportion of US bonds

- One of the wealthiest and most profitable markets in the world

- The world's largest trade network - currently aggressively expanding into LatAm with the Mercosur deal despite Trump's Monroe 2.0 ambitions.

Just a few off the the top of my head. There's plenty leverage there.

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#102

Post by fritzorino »

TrackerFF wrote: post #89

It is wildly fascinating to experience, in real time, how fragile the US system is. Trump really did show that the US is built on the assumption that people in power will behave, basically a honor system. Trump is stress testing every single aspect of the US. He's dousing the US with gasoline, and fumbling around with matches. The people around him, knee deep in gas, are too afraid to take the matches from him. In so…

Yeah those checks and balances that Yanks are always waxing poetic about have turned out to be basically horse shit. There are no checks and balances, they elect a king for 4 years and then hope for the best. That's the American system.

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#103

Post by hermanzegerman »

jleyank wrote: post #65
palata wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under those conditions, one could wonder if NATO is still actually a thing.

If the Europeans plus Canada want it to exist, it exists. Otherwise, yeah, scrap heap of history.

EU has it's own more robust defence agreement.

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#104

Post by jleyank »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #103
jleyank wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Europeans plus Canada want it to exist, it exists. Otherwise, yeah, scrap heap of history.

EU has it's own more robust defence agreement.

Can Canada join, or has it? Other non-EU countries?

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#105

Post by impossiblefork »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #82
impossiblefork wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, since there's a lot of talk like this, how are we leeches? If anything, surely it's the Americans who are leeches, what with the fact that they're living off software exports and monopolies as opposed to production of actual useful goods? Do you think we didn't invest in our defence? Here in Sweden we put in 5% of GDP until the Soviet Union dissolved. It was pro-US politicians like Carl Bildt, a man who associate…

Not to take away from the larger point, but the US remains a manufacturing juggernaut compared to anyone that isn't China. It's still the #2 manufacturing nation in the world and produces more than the EU as a whole. It's just become a small aspect of a much larger economy.

Yes, but I think the US industrial output is overvalued.

The US has a very small value of total exports, and this lead me to assume that the goods it makes a lot of are not always competitive on the international market even though they sell for a great deal in the US.

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#106

Post by piva00 »

pessimizer wrote: post #67
sixothree wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fox News happened.

Fox News has never cared about Greenland, and was energetically anti-Trump during the 2016 primary, most of his 1st term, during the Biden presidency, and during the 2024 primary. They're almost fully in the bag for him right now, but hate tariffs. But even now, Fox News refused to sign on to the new Pentagon press pass requirements, and gave up their access. Important things are going on. It's not good to mindlessly…

It's not about Fox News pushing the Greenland annexation bullshit, it's for everything else they did to be a mouthpiece to spread the "libs are bad!". These acts have a direct link to the power Trump amassed.

Refusing the Pentagon prrss requirements is a nothingburger when for the past 10-15 years it brainrotted a large cohort of the American population.

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#107

Post by saubeidl »

tpm wrote: post #90
jonkoops wrote: post #29

Since the only thing Trump understands is force, I am looking forward to the retaliation from and military positioning of EU member states to defend Greenland. Perhaps it is what is needed to finally impeach.

The EU is not a military/security alliance (yet).

7. If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/treaty/teu_2016/art_42/oj/eng

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#108

Post by mrtksn »

komali2 wrote: post #30

I liked this bit by Doctorow recently https://pluralistic.net/2026/01/01/39c3/ If you're getting tariffs anyway, why not just take the yoke of American business protection laws off your shoulders? Let French engineers sell jailbreaking hardware for iphones, or Romanian developers sell unlock keys for John Deere tractors.

Because they are terrified that there will be unpredictable and turbulent times for the major industries?

Just look at the public opinion polls, EU citizens are ready to take on Americans and even the most pro-US countries are barely on the green in public opinion towards US. The problems is that the old guard, the establishment is fanatically pro-US and pro stability. Which means that the current politicians are in odds with what the public wants and eventually either the public will have to become pro-US again or the anti-US politicians will take stage. US Doing stuff like tariffs that can destabilize the stability folks can push things to much earlier.

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#109

Post by aebtebeten »

tpm wrote: post #94
bpodgursky wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is 450 million people! It's the size of the entire continent of south america! It was the richest part of the world for centuries! They absolutely should be able to function as an independent block with international trade for convenience and not survival.

Great, but standing against Russia, the US and China at the same time? Come on.

That may actually be an advantage: position Europe as a neutral block that trades with everybody, and it may actually be valuable enough as a neutral that anytime one of those three has designs on it, the other two would naturally have to combine to thwart them.

Re: Eight European countries face 10% tariff for opposing US control of Greenland

#110

Post by aebtebeten »

jleyank wrote: post #104
hermanzegerman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU has it's own more robust defence agreement.

Can Canada join, or has it? Other non-EU countries?

I'm sure Canada could join Operation Arctic Endurance; has it yet?
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