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Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

lalitm.com

101–110 of 168 posts

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#101
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this point of view. Most of the people aren't wasting their time. They're getting paid for the effort. The business is taking a risk, and pays people to realize their vision. Some visions are bad. Getting personally attached and emotionally invested in work you get paid for is a risk too. There's nothing wrong with that. But there's also nothing wrong putting your time in and churning out requireme…

of course they're wasting their time. a year of work deleted? all you have to show for it is money? you could have money AND something to be proud of. what a waste it was, to do something pointless for a year when you could have done something important. not to say that there aren't experiments worth running. but in my experience (and in the example in the OP's article), the experiment often isn't even worth running.…

It seems different people get different things out of work. My favorite kind of code to write at work is code that I know will never make it to production. No chance of requirement change or incomprehensible support tickets. I mean your way is valid too.

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#102
post #44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reminds me of one of my managers who said, “Sometimes, you have to let people fail.” I often say "Sometimes, you have to let the manager fail." Some managers don't like being told their ideas won't work. If you refuse or argue, you are seen as the reason his idea failed. I've found what works best with them is to proceed with the work, but keep them informed very frequently, so they can see how things evolve, and w…

I can’t imagine holding a job where I had to do work that I expect will fail. Sounds absolutely depressing. What keeps you motivated?

For me it's the people.

I've been at my current company for ~4 years. Every January the upper management folks kick off the same project and every year it dies in the planning/discussion phase. Maybe one or two other "big" projects or initiatives will "start," but it's always the same: lots of meetings between the managers without the engineers or designers, lots of hype about the "big project," meetings start to get delayed, roadmaps and plans never materialize, then people stop talking about the project altogether. Sometimes I buy into the hype because I believe in the projects, other times I try to point out issues/risks. Either way the engineering team as a whole is always ignored.

What keeps me motivated is doing what I can for the people who _actually appreciate_ what I do. I work in manufacturing and spend a lot of time talking to the people on the factory floor. There's nothing better than hearing about their struggles and then a few days or weeks later coming back to them with "Hey, I heard you saying you're having an issue with X, so I made Y. Want to try it out and see if it makes things easier?" And then when they stop by my desk to say "Hey sibit Y is awesome!". That makes the job just tolerable enough to not leave.

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#103
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine holding a job where I had to do work that I expect will fail. Sounds absolutely depressing. What keeps you motivated?

We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. "Fulfilling" work is a rarity afforded by a fairly unique time and place in history. For the rest of us, work is a means to an end and ideally a fulfilling life outside work lets you keep plugging away on some rich idiot's hare braine…

Amen

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#104
Great analogy.

I've never worked at a company as large as Google but in my experience things can be a little more optimistic than the post. When earn enough trust with your leadership, such as at the staff/architect level, you'll be able to tell them they are wrong more often and they'll listen. It doesn't have to be a "$50,000 check" every time.

That leads to a very important question - Why doesn't leadership always trust their engineers? And there's a very important answer that isn't mentioned in the blog post - Sometimes the engineers are wrong.

Engineers are extremely good at finding flaws. But not so good at understanding the business perspective. Depending on the greater context there are times where it does make sense to move forward with a flawed idea.

So next time you hear an idea that sounds stupid, take a beat to understand more where the idea is coming from. If you get better at discerning the difference between ideas that are actually fine (despite their flaws), versus ideas that need to die, then you'll earn more trust with your org.

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#105

More succinctly: * Know your audience. Saying things they are unable to hear is a waste of energy. * Choose your battles carefully. The flip side: * Trust your gut * Speak authentically and with an aim to help (not convince) * Don’t be overly invested or dependent on the actions and reactions of others (can be hard to do if someone has power over you) Balancing these things is something I’m learning about…

“Unable to hear” is a huge and very important way to say that.

Thank you for that wording.

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#106
At this point I will generally only stick my neck out to criticize a project, decision, or initiative if one of the following is true:

- It will adversely affect me directly (e.g. cause me to get paged a lot)

- It will harm users or other people outside of the org (various kinds of externalities)

Otherwise it's the company's problem. (Of course, I'm generally happy to give advice and critiques if asked.)

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#107
post #44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reminds me of one of my managers who said, “Sometimes, you have to let people fail.” I often say "Sometimes, you have to let the manager fail." Some managers don't like being told their ideas won't work. If you refuse or argue, you are seen as the reason his idea failed. I've found what works best with them is to proceed with the work, but keep them informed very frequently, so they can see how things evolve, and w…

I can’t imagine holding a job where I had to do work that I expect will fail. Sounds absolutely depressing. What keeps you motivated?

It can go many different ways. You can be 110% invested over years building something (and getting paid for it) for somebody who is ultimately incapable of selling it. It fails, womp womp. You can be 10% invested in a pile of crap (and getting paid for it) for a company that's simply checking the boxes. It fails, womp womp. You can be 90% invested in an ill-conceived idea that actually turns out great (to spec), but ultimately fails, because it wasn't anything anybody EXCEPT the client asked for. Womp womp again! You can even do everything right, do great work for a client, launch it, it performs exactly as was expected, then 3 months later is wiped from the internet because the marketing campaign is over, and a new quarterly budget came in for the client, and then it's on to the next thing.

All of this stuff can be remarkably ephemeral, farts in the wind even, and all you can do is take pride in what you did when you did it, and then take on the next challenge.

Sounds depressing if you frame it up a certain way, but it's actually really freeing to just give in completely to the process and treat it like the weather: you're gonna get everything from sunshine to rain to snow to hurricanes, and none of it is in your control. Just enjoy it while it's good, and ride it out when it's not! There's always something new on the horizon.

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#108
post #18

Excellent advice for the 'House of Cards' politics of big tech, but it’s essentially corporate pacifism. In any other setting you can't afford to watch money and motivation burn just to stay 'politically solvent'. (Lalit is very good at fitting complex corporate dynamics in a single blog post though.)

I’ve never worked in big tech, but I have seen the same dynamics play out in much smaller orgs. If you’re constantly nitpicking and expressing concerns, you become “that person” who’s constantly negative about other people’s ideas. After a while people tune out; they already know that you’ll find “problems.” We all know these people. No one really likes working with them. Thus they’re _not effective_ at what they’re…

Yeah, ultimately you're paid to deliver results. Criticism is only of value to the degree that it leads to better results; there is zero value in predicting failure per se. Some people place so much value on being right that they lose sight of the actual goals (and I won't say I'm immune to this, but marriage helped). Nothing with a high upside is low risk, so as en employee you need to inherently frame all risks in terms of identifying the most likely path to succeed.

The only alternative is to advocate for inaction, but then why are they paying you? Those kind of bets can make sense for private equity investors, but not for employees, and my builder-brain just finds them dull and annoying.

Re: Why senior engineers let bad projects fail

#110
post #2

I disagree, and I think this advice can be actively harmful. You shouldn’t ignore a problem when you’re in a position to help. At the same time, you also shouldn’t take on the emotional burden of other people’s projects. If I see something heading toward failure, I let people know they may want to consider a different approach. That’s it. There’s no need to be harsh or belabor the point but it’s better to speak up th…

> …when you’re in a position to help

This clause is doing a lot of heavy lifting. One needs to have good judgement about when and how to help. A lot of people can imagine how things could go better if a bunch of other people changed their behavior in surprisingly simple ways. It's a much smaller subset of people that can correctly push the right buttons to get the other people to actually make those changes succeed at a systematic level.

In a small org it's actually not too hard for good ideas and feedback to get traction. In a larger org for broad concerns it can be fiendeshly difficult. Often the reason why a large project will fail is only truly knowable by a few senior technical people with enough experience and broad context to see the forrest for the trees. Past a certain volume of people involved you can not explain to people why it will fail fast enough to offset the army of clueless stakeholders incentivized to socialize a good-sounding narrative convincing everyone that we need to try. In these cases reductive explanations with the right counter-narrative can work, but they require significant reputational and/or hard authority to pull off.

This is why the article advocates picking your battles in a large org. Often the chance of actually helping is much lower than destroying your own reputation, even if you're right.

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