Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Iran is likely jamming Starlink

timesofisrael.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 306 posts

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#101

Post by paganel »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #83
stereo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gps is free to use. Running your own gnss service requires an atomic clock and possibly separate transmission hardware, which is possible, but adds cost, volume, and weight. According to [1], “[o]ne of the current generation of GPS satellites (Block III) weighs over 2,200 kg (4,850 lb), the weight of an average pickup truck. The body of these satellites are 1.8 m x 2.5 m x 3.4 m (5.9’ x 8.2’ x 11.2’) in size”. In com…

> Gps is free to use. Running your own gnss service requires an atomic clock and possibly separate transmission hardware, which is possible, but adds cost, volume, and weight. Thanks you provide some great insights on why starlink didnt use gps but still if starlink wants to focus itself as the uncensorable internet in places like protests etc. I feel like they can probably do this after this recent incident I just c…

Yes, ask their Mossad direct and local handlers (as per Mike Pompeo [1]) about how things are going, I’m sure that this being Mossad they have a ground-based way to get the information out.

[1] https://xcancel.com/mikepompeo/status/2007180411638620659

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#102

Post by testing22321 »

perihelions wrote: post #58

Seems like a big flaw that low-orbit constellations have a dependency on GPS, which are high-altitude satellites. They're 40x further away and so have 1,600x greater path loss. Why can't they use their own satellites for this? > "But Starlink receivers use GPS to locate and connect to satellites. “Since its 12-day war with Israel last June," The Times says, “Iran has been disrupting GPS signals.”"

Musk tweeted a while back that the constellation could be used as its own GPS service, but it wasn’t a priority right now. Maybe later.

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#103

Post by GrowingSideways »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #91
GrowingSideways wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both sides are using starlink, yes? Also there's now guowang to contend with. I'm not sure how widely available access to it is. I would assume both sides are heavily jamming the frontlines. But presumably long range drone operations are more likely to use it.

Jamming is subject to the inverse square law.

Yes, this is why it happens only on the front line

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#104

Post by sanex »

sciurus wrote: post #92
Neywiny wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? The jammers are on the ground. Just like receivers on the ground can be jammed with bad RF nearby, so can receivers in space. You just point the bad RF towards the receiver

The GPS satellites aren't receiving anything. The GPS satellites transmit signals, and the starlink terminals (and other users of GPS) receive those signals.

Maybe he's implying they're literally cancelling out the waves like ANC headphones but with emf and a large geographic area.

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#105

Post by tatjam »

sciurus wrote: post #92
Neywiny wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? The jammers are on the ground. Just like receivers on the ground can be jammed with bad RF nearby, so can receivers in space. You just point the bad RF towards the receiver

The GPS satellites aren't receiving anything. The GPS satellites transmit signals, and the starlink terminals (and other users of GPS) receive those signals.

Wellll you could technically jam their uplink channels, but doing so may get the US in your doorstep quite quickly

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#106

Post by scythe »

paganel wrote: post #100

Good for them, as they’re under external attack. For example a US ghoul like Mike Pompeo had this to say recently [1]: > Happy New Year to every Iranian in the streets. Also to every Mossad agent walking beside them so under those circumstances anything goes to defeat the likes of Mossad and associated foreign entities doing their thing on Iranian soil. [1] https://xcancel.com/mikepompeo/status/2007180411638620659

I think this is a major unforced error by the USG, of course we have seen plenty of those of late. There may be Israeli, American or other intelligence agencies present. But history has shown that spies can't just foment a revolution out of thin air. The Americans' first attempt at a coup in Chile, in 1970, failed. It was only after three years of US machinations and missteps by the Allende administration that Pinochet arose — Pinochet was given his fateful promotion by Allende himself! And that was in a "friendly" country where the US had many connections.

Iranians wouldn't be on the streets right now if the government had listened to its own water engineers over the years. But the new political culture in our government is more interested in braggadocio than achieving real change. I doubt that if the protesters succeed that Iran would become friendly to the West. At the same time there is probably a not too contrived worry among the Iranians that Netanyahu will seize the opportunity to attack if a political transition occurs. Bluster like this only hurts the cause.

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#107

Post by touisteur »

Geee wrote: post #98
malchow wrote: post #73

Satellite signals are just weak RF signals and can be disrupted easily. There is nothing 'hardened' about them. It's funny that people think Starlink or any of its many incipient competitors are any different.

Starlink uses beamforming with directional antenna arrays, so it should be rather difficult to jam compared to omnidirectional antennas. It's basically a dish pointed at the satellite, so the jammer should be in between to work. Antenna arrays aren't perfect so it still picks up some energy omnidirectionally, but it should be possible to shield it with some metal plates in a way that only sky is visible. https://en.w…

I think, to beamform in the right direction you have to be able to locate yourself precisely, have an up-to-date almanach of the satellites, and a precise enough datation source. Jamming GNSS is a source of problems for 2 of those issues.

Also, the antennas on starlink dishes are still pretty small, likely to pick up some hard-to-remove sidelobes and the tech to cancel them properly might be export-controlled. You still need to be within electromagnetic visibility to jam them, though.

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#108

Post by ck2 »

I am curious how phones now can reach LEO for enough bandwidth for voice calls but you need a full dish, however small, for starlink?

Could you get at least 1mbps from a phone to LEO now for email and non-realtime data?

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#109

Post by sawjet »

afavour wrote: post #97
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gps is free to use. Running your own gnss service requires an atomic clock and possibly separate transmission hardware, which is possible, but adds cost, volume, and weight. Thanks you provide some great insights on why starlink didnt use gps but still if starlink wants to focus itself as the uncensorable internet in places like protests etc. I feel like they can probably do this after this recent incident I just c…

> if starlink wants to focus itself as the uncensorable internet in places like protests etc I’m not sure Musk would actually want that though, especially these days.

Why not?

Re: Iran is likely jamming Starlink

#110

Post by hcurtiss »

afavour wrote: post #97
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gps is free to use. Running your own gnss service requires an atomic clock and possibly separate transmission hardware, which is possible, but adds cost, volume, and weight. Thanks you provide some great insights on why starlink didnt use gps but still if starlink wants to focus itself as the uncensorable internet in places like protests etc. I feel like they can probably do this after this recent incident I just c…

> if starlink wants to focus itself as the uncensorable internet in places like protests etc I’m not sure Musk would actually want that though, especially these days.

Why not? Has Musk shut off Starlink? The reporting out of Ukraine was almost entirely wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russian-Ukrain...
Post reply on HN