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OLED, Not for Me

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Re: OLED, Not for Me

#101

Post by eloisant »

ksec wrote: post #46
aappleby wrote: post #18

This guy is complaining about fringing...on 9- and 10-pixel high fonts. That works out to 1.6mm or 1.8mm high characters on a 140 dpi screen, or about 1/16 of an inch. He's also got Cleartype on and set to RGB stripe even though the OLED is not RGB stripe (though to be fair, Windows doesn't really make it clear what each page of the ClearType tuner does). But yeah, if you use a _tiny_ font and sit _really_ close to t…

My Friend on a 30Hz Phone Screen because of battery saving mode said the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz is so minor, that in "In practice, it's been unnoticeable." At one point in time 95%+ of HN comments were cheering on about Atom the text editor and later VSCode as being fast enough or unnoticeable. When Sublime user are baffled as to why. And Sublime isn't the fastest text editor either before Zed came out. Yes…

It's all a matter of compromise.

I can see the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz on phone screens, and I think it's worth the impact on battery life.

I can see the difference in speed between VSCode and editors like Sublime or Zed, however in this case I prefer the additional features at the cost of speed/smoothness.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#102

Post by Aissen »

It's a bit sad to see hardware manufacturers changing the pixel layout because we weren't able to adapt modern software to do sub-pixel font rendering that works with different layouts out of the box.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#103

Post by [deleted] »

ksec wrote: post #46
aappleby wrote: post #18

This guy is complaining about fringing...on 9- and 10-pixel high fonts. That works out to 1.6mm or 1.8mm high characters on a 140 dpi screen, or about 1/16 of an inch. He's also got Cleartype on and set to RGB stripe even though the OLED is not RGB stripe (though to be fair, Windows doesn't really make it clear what each page of the ClearType tuner does). But yeah, if you use a _tiny_ font and sit _really_ close to t…

My Friend on a 30Hz Phone Screen because of battery saving mode said the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz is so minor, that in "In practice, it's been unnoticeable." At one point in time 95%+ of HN comments were cheering on about Atom the text editor and later VSCode as being fast enough or unnoticeable. When Sublime user are baffled as to why. And Sublime isn't the fastest text editor either before Zed came out. Yes…

[deleted]

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#104

Post by willis936 »

Aissen wrote: post #102

It's a bit sad to see hardware manufacturers changing the pixel layout because we weren't able to adapt modern software to do sub-pixel font rendering that works with different layouts out of the box.

On the other hand: it's nice to see the march of pixel density increasing which makes this problem go away entirely.

I used an LG C2 42" as a monitor for a few years. The color fringing was particularly bad for me because I like yellow text and LG uses RWBG. 4K 42" and 1440p 27" are about 110 DPI. This is not enough. 4K 27" is about 160 DPI. That is enough. We've already pushed past needing to care about subpixel layouts if you properly weight pixel density in your selection.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#105

Post by nasmorn »

rabf wrote: post #58
ksec wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Friend on a 30Hz Phone Screen because of battery saving mode said the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz is so minor, that in "In practice, it's been unnoticeable." At one point in time 95%+ of HN comments were cheering on about Atom the text editor and later VSCode as being fast enough or unnoticeable. When Sublime user are baffled as to why. And Sublime isn't the fastest text editor either before Zed came out. Yes…

When people ask what computer they should buy I always tell them to get any old office computer from ebay and use the rest of the money to buy a really nice monitor, and a really nice keyboard and mouse, as these are the bits you use! For most tasks that are undertaken on a computer any processor from the last 10 years coupled with 16GB of ram is more than sufficient.

If you buy a really nice monitor, which for me starts at 6K 32” - the eBay computer will no longer drive it. What I find insane is how long companies issued 19” 1080 screens to their employees. I don’t think that was a well calculated choice given that a couple of hundred more over 5 years would have surely improved productivity by a little bit for their 50k year employees. It felt almost done out of spite to keep people in their place

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#106

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

JeanMii wrote: post #98
ksec wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a point in time ( may be 15+ years ago ) I said MacBook have the best laptop speakers and that was one of the reason I brought them. They are not perfect, as any people who cares about audio will tell you but considering the size of laptop they were the best I could get and decent enough. Most of my friends, and nearly everyone on the internet was like, who buys Laptops because of speakers? They all sounded…

I've learned to come to terms with this mentality, mainly due to time constraints. Before, I would always do an insane amount of research and benchmarking to find the absolute best in its category, even for mundane things like a coffee grinder. I would aggregate thousands of reviews and turn them into sentiment analysis, cross-referencing reviews, and so on. Now, I take a more 80/20 approach: I clearly define my need…

I think it's still worth going down the rabbit hole but only when 1) You know you're gonna use the thing a lot and for a long time and 2) You have some real, objective ways (i.e. beyond the very influenceable MOS) of measuring a real, humanly perceivable difference.

This is how I became quite learned in sound reproduction (incl. acoustics and psychoacoustics) then bought Genelec loudspeakers, for example. But I don't care about finding Samsung B-dies (I think?) for my RAM.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#107

Post by kalleboo »

kllrnohj wrote: post #28
jedbrooke wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the RGB strip layout has some downsides, and why such a no brainer idea hasn’t been tried before. If I had to guess it could be something in the manufacturing process is more difficult.

RGB strip isn't really better, it's just what cleartype happens to understand. A lot of these OLED developments came from either TV or mobile, neither of which had legacy subpixel hinting to deal with. So the subpixel layouts were optimized for both manufacturing but also human perception. Humans do not perceive all colors equally, we are much more sensitive to green than blue for example. Since OLED is emissive, it…

> A lot of these OLED developments came from either TV or mobile

I remember getting one of the early Samsung OLED PenTile displays, and despite the display having a higher resolution on-paper than the display on the LCD phone I replaced it with, the fuzzy fringey text made it far less readable in practice. There were other issues with that phone so I was happy to resell it and go back to my previous one.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#108

Post by WithinReason »

kstenerud wrote: post #50
theshackleford wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In practice for me, it's been unnoticeable. You act like being able to see this a minority opinion, it’s not, and it’s a known issue. And you don’t need to be sitting close, or using a tiny font to notice it. My 4K OLED is noticeably less clear compared to an IPS display and I’d never use it for productivity as a result, because why would I willingly subject myself to an objectively worse experience?

Whether it's a minority opinion or not, I really can't see the difference. Even when he posted highly zoomed images of VS Code ("Visual Studio Code does a wonderful job demonstrating this problem"), the only thing I noticed is that the image on the right looks slightly brighter than the image on the left. Then as I went back to where he was describing the problem ("fringing"), I kept forgetting when I scrolled back t…

The image on the right was also out of focus which hides color fringing on the LCD

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#110

Post by girvo »

kllrnohj wrote: post #28
jedbrooke wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the RGB strip layout has some downsides, and why such a no brainer idea hasn’t been tried before. If I had to guess it could be something in the manufacturing process is more difficult.

RGB strip isn't really better, it's just what cleartype happens to understand. A lot of these OLED developments came from either TV or mobile, neither of which had legacy subpixel hinting to deal with. So the subpixel layouts were optimized for both manufacturing but also human perception. Humans do not perceive all colors equally, we are much more sensitive to green than blue for example. Since OLED is emissive, it…

The article shows mac, it's not just ClearType...

PenTile for example (as another commenter pointed out) was woeful with text, and made things look fuzzy.

I'm not a fan of ClearType, but even on Linux OLED text rendering just isn't as good in my experience (at normal desktop monitor DPI)

Perhaps its down to the algorithms most OSes use instead of just ClearType, but why hasn't it been solved by this point even outside Windows?

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