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RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

scottjg.com

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Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#101
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's extra funny to me because the Raspberry Pi SoC is basically a little CPU riding on a big GPU (well, the earlier ones were. Maybe the latest ones shift the balance of power a bit). In fact, to this day the GPU is still the one driving the boot sequence. So plugging a RasPi into a 5090 is "just" swapping the horse for one 10,000x bigger (someone correct my ratio of the RasPi5 GPU to the RTX5090)

I'm not very familiar with this layer of things; what does it mean for a GPU to drive a boot sequence? Is there something massively parallel that is well suited for the GPU?

The Raspberry Pi contains a Videocore processor (I wrote the original instruction set coding and assembler and simulator for this processor).

This is a general purpose processor which includes 16 way SIMD instructions that can access data in a 64 by 64 byte register file as either rows or columns (and as either 8 or 16 or 32 bit data).

It also has superscalar instructions which access a separate set of 32-bit registers, but is tightly integrated with the SIMD instructions (like in ARM Neon cores or x86 AVX instructions).

This is what boots up originally.

Videocore was designed to be good at the actions needed for video codecs (e.g. motion estimation and DCTs).

I did write a 3d library that could render textured triangles using the SIMD instructions on this processor. This was enough to render simple graphics and I wrote a demo that rendered Tomb Raider levels, but only for a small frame resolution.

The main application was video codecs, so for the original Apple Video iPod I wrote the MPEG4 and h264 decoding software using the Videocore processor, which could run at around QVGA resolution.

However, in later versions of the chip we wanted more video and graphics performance. I designed the hardware to accelerate video, while another team (including Eben) wrote the hardware to accelerate 3d graphics.

So in Raspberry Pis, there is both a Videocore processor (which boots up and handles some tasks), and a separate GPU (which handles 3d graphics, but not booting up).

It is possible to write code that runs on the Videocore processor - on older Pis I accelerated some video decode sofware codecs by using both the GPU and the Videocore to offload bits of transform and deblocking and motion compensation, but on later Pis there is dedicated video decode hardware to do this instead.

Note that the ARMs on the later Pis are much faster and more capable than before, while the Videocore processor has not been developed, so there is not really much use for the Videocore anymore. However, the separate GPU has been developed more and is quite capable.

Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#102
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're paying a premium for physical compatibility with a ton of niche accessories. Whether or not they make sense depends on how important those accessories are to your use case. That and the prices never really came back down to earth after the chip shortage hikes.

> You're paying a premium for physical compatibility No. There are a bunch of alternatives with some to full pin compatibility. Some being many times faster [1]. No new projects should use a new Raspberry Pi. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OQ5ascBuCw

Unless they want to keep going without needing to swap things out frequently and deal with the extremely poor support that most alternatives get.

Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#103
post #16

I think the conclusion here is that Raspberry Pis are now too pricey (especially when factoring in the various required accessories) and rarely make sense for typical desktop use vs. x86 mini-PCs. They make even less sense compared to various used thin clients that can generally be found on eBay.

> I think the conclusion here is that Raspberry Pis are now too pricey This blog post shows a $2000 GPU attached to a slow SBC that costs less than 1/10th of the GPU. It’s interesting. It’s entertaining. It’s a fun read. But it’s not a serious setup that anyone considers optimal.

You think an RTX 5090 only costs $2000??

Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#104
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not very familiar with this layer of things; what does it mean for a GPU to drive a boot sequence? Is there something massively parallel that is well suited for the GPU?

The Raspberry Pi contains a Videocore processor (I wrote the original instruction set coding and assembler and simulator for this processor). This is a general purpose processor which includes 16 way SIMD instructions that can access data in a 64 by 64 byte register file as either rows or columns (and as either 8 or 16 or 32 bit data). It also has superscalar instructions which access a separate set of 32-bit registe…

You have the most interesting job!

Thank you, I've used your work quite a number of times now.

Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I brought a pi 500+ with an SSD, 16GB RAM, little screen, PSU, mouse and cables. It was around £300. It's not super powerful but my young kids use it to surf the net, play Minecraft, do art projects, etc. (we are yet to play with the gpio). I don't get on with the keyboard but otherwise would make a decent development machine for me, considering my development starts with me ssh'ing into some remote VM and r…

You can get much more powerful PCs for much less, e.g.: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CFPRDQY8/

That's actually about the same price as the pi 500+ without the screen. Except that one has 500gb Vs 256gb SSD, but doesn't have the snazzy led keyboard.

Processor comparison too

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-raspberry_pi_5_b_b...

Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#107
If the CPU is the bottleneck, an interesting metric would be how cheap of a GPU you can pair and still add value. I suspect you would have similar benchmarks with a 5060 as a 5090 in these tests.

For example, if you pair an N150 mini pc with a cheap AMD egpu (one of the laptop skus), you’ve made yourself tho equivalent of a gaming laptop in clamshell (with better cooling) on the cheap. A price vs fps curve, switching GPUs but keeping the mini pc as a constant, would be super interesting.

Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#108
post #16

I think the conclusion here is that Raspberry Pis are now too pricey (especially when factoring in the various required accessories) and rarely make sense for typical desktop use vs. x86 mini-PCs. They make even less sense compared to various used thin clients that can generally be found on eBay.

You're paying a premium for physical compatibility with a ton of niche accessories. Whether or not they make sense depends on how important those accessories are to your use case. That and the prices never really came back down to earth after the chip shortage hikes.

> You're paying a premium for physical compatibility with a ton of niche accessories.

Maybe this is the new narrative, but it wasn't how the Pi was initially developed and marketed.

It's just a touch too expensive for the use cases many hobbiest have.

Re: RTX 5090 and Raspberry Pi: Can it game?

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what does it mean for a GPU to drive a boot sequence It's a quirk of the broadcom chips that the rpi family uses; the GPU is the first bit of silicon to power up and do things. The GPU specifically is a bit unusual, but the general idea of "smaller thing does initial bring up, then powers up $main_cpu" is not unusual once $main_cpu is ~ powerful enough to run linux.

That’s interesting, particularly since as far as I can tell, nothing in userland really bothers to make use of its GPU. I would really like to understand why, since I have a whole bunch of Pi’s and it seems like their GPUs can’t be used for much of anything (not really much for transcoding nor for AI).

One (obscure) example I know of is the RTLSDR-Airband[1] project uses the GPU to do FFT computation on older, less powerful Pis, through the GPU_FFT library[2].

1: https://github.com/rtl-airband/RTLSDR-Airband

2: http://www.aholme.co.uk/GPU_FFT/Main.htm

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