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The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

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Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#101

Post by renegade-otter »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #51
renegade-otter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. Entities must be acting as CITIZENS, first and foremost, bound by laws, norms, and shame. Shame, the glue of civilization, as I call it, is quickly disappearing. The Nothing Matters LOL world is bound to decompose.

Entities acting as citizens is the exact failure mode of USA. They are not citizens, they are objects of regulation.

So are the citizens.

Don't get me started on "corporations are people" bullshit. I use "citizen" with a much deeper meaning.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#102

Post by mothballed »

Y-bar wrote: post #88
mothballed wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark would likely low key love to shitcan greenland. They are a massive money drain, welfare state. Their minerals exist but not enough to turn the place net positive to their colonizer. If Denmark could come "steal" something like the Pine Ridge Reservation in the Dakotas, it would be an imperfect analogy. As long as we could lose it while still saving face, it would be absolutely amazing economically for the USA…

Denmark sent about 4,3 Billion Danish Krona to Greenland last year, this is about 0.6% of Denmark's budget. For a nation that made a surplus of about 130 Billion in 2025 it does not seem like a something Danes in general want or need to shitcan.

Most people in Greenland want Independence from Denmark. They consider themselves foreigners to the country and yet devour 0.6% of their surplus.

IMO it is foolish both for USA and Denmark to take them. Cut them loose as they desire and let them trade their minerals which they will surely do as soon as they realize their free lunch is gone. You would still get the thing you want it for, the greenlander are happy they are free of the colonizers, and it likely wouldn't change things militarily as they would absolutely sign a defense treaty as soon as you hand them the pen.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#103

Post by throw0101c »

fny wrote: post #8

There are a few things that confuse me about this potential acquisition: 1. You won't govern it. Greenland has it's own Self-Government Act. [0] 2. You won't own the land. Almost all land is owned by the State. [1] 3. The Danes have no special land ownership rights. [2] 4. Land use rights, however, are granted for different activities (fishing, mining) subject to approval. [3] I'd imagine none of this changes under a…

> 1. You won't govern it. Greenland has it's own Self-Government Act. [0]

It may be governed the way of the Gambino family governing New York city: by receiving envelopes.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#104

Post by ivan_gammel »

renegade-otter wrote: post #101
ivan_gammel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entities acting as citizens is the exact failure mode of USA. They are not citizens, they are objects of regulation.

So are the citizens. Don't get me started on "corporations are people" bullshit. I use "citizen" with a much deeper meaning.

Citizens are subjects, they have active voice. You may mean something deeper, but others will happily support only the “active voice” part. Corporations must not have it.

But in certain sense you are right. Corporate management should behave as citizens, and their citizen duties must be superior to their duties to shareholders.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#105

Post by munksbeer »

throwaway132448 wrote: post #72
Rainbooow wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really basic economics that free market leads to monopolies? I thought this is not something where there is a strong consensus about ; free market advocates will actually argue that this is regulation that leads to monopolies.

I didn't say that free markets lead to monopolies: I qualified that with the need for economies of scale. Those may not exist - but look at most of the markets you interact with in your daily life and try and find the ones that don't. I'm not aware of how regulation of competitive markets would lead to monopoly. Are you referring to "regulation" in the form of state-endorsed/controlled monopolies? Those usually exist…

> I'm not aware of how regulation of competitive markets would lead to monopoly.

It depends what you mean by regulation, right?

Many industries have extremely onerous and costly regulation which creates barriers for new entrants to those markets.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#106

Post by logicchains »

hliyan wrote: post #13

The events of the past 12 months, culminating in Venezuela and now Greenland, has made me reevaluate a lot of my beliefs about unimpeded competition between free agents (i.e. a free market) leading to the best and most peaceful outcomes. Clearly, a few participants becoming disproportionately powerful is a failure mode. The way I've tried to reconcile my beliefs with what are clearly contradictory observations in the…

>The events of the past 12 months, culminating in Venezuela and now Greenland, has made me reevaluate a lot of my beliefs about unimpeded competition between free agents (i.e. a free market) leading to the best and most peaceful outcomes.

What have markets got to do with it? For as long as humans have been recording history, states have been annexing weaker states, regardless of economic system. It's absurd to blame free markets for this.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#107

Post by joakleaf »

derelicta wrote: post #24

Can't wait for the CNN headlines: "DANES CHEER AS TYRAN PRIME MINISTER CAPTURED", "DANES WELCOME FOREIGN LIBERATORS", "DANISH ECONOMY TO BOOM WITH FREE MARKETS REFORMS"

This doesn't really align with CNN's view, but may apply to another even more popular US news channel that seems to be much more aligned with the current administration...

Greenland and Denmark are not the same. Greenland is a self-governed territory under the Kingdom of Denmark. The US administration wishes to take over Greenland from Denmark completely. So you should replace your headlines with "Greenland" and "Greenlanders".

Note: There have already been discussions about making Greenland independent from Denmark, but there is uncertainty over how to handle economic and defense situations. Greenland currently receives significant support (about $10000-15000 per capita yearly) from Denmark. So it is not clear how the country would run without that.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#108

Post by TMWNN »

fny wrote: post #8

There are a few things that confuse me about this potential acquisition: 1. You won't govern it. Greenland has it's own Self-Government Act. [0] 2. You won't own the land. Almost all land is owned by the State. [1] 3. The Danes have no special land ownership rights. [2] 4. Land use rights, however, are granted for different activities (fishing, mining) subject to approval. [3] I'd imagine none of this changes under a…

[flagged]

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#109

Post by logicchains »

throwaway132448 wrote: post #30
hliyan wrote: post #13

The events of the past 12 months, culminating in Venezuela and now Greenland, has made me reevaluate a lot of my beliefs about unimpeded competition between free agents (i.e. a free market) leading to the best and most peaceful outcomes. Clearly, a few participants becoming disproportionately powerful is a failure mode. The way I've tried to reconcile my beliefs with what are clearly contradictory observations in the…

All "free market" ideals require no/low barriers to entry in order for the market to be "self regulating". Said absence of barriers to entry almost never exists, hence the idea of completely free markets is completely naive - you need regulation. Markets also cannot account for externalities. If those externalities are something you care about (e.g. the environment you live in) - you need regulation. Economies of sca…

>Markets also cannot account for externalities. If those externalities are something you care about (e.g. the environment you live in) - you need regulation.

Markets account for externalities via ownership and torts. This was gutted in the 1800s in the US where a judge ruled people couldn't sue for the impact of environmental pollution, in the name of the "greater good" of industrialization.

Re: The mineral riches hiding under Greenland's ice

#110

Post by ajoseps »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #71

As a European. I'm starting to hate the US. Not dislike. Hate. For months I thought they can't possibly allow the orange clown to ruin their country any further. But the country is clearly spiralling out of control. And I'm starting to hate the whole culture. Now if a part of the population did anything other than comment online. If they took to the streets or did anything substantial in protest. But no. Crickets. So…

The No Kings protests are large and have been occurring over the last year. It’s disingenuous to imply the population is doing nothing but comment online. The US is a large country with the third largest population in the world. It’s not homogenous.

Despite all that, it’s probably still prudent to decouple from the US.

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