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Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

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Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#101

Post by wtallis »

distances wrote: post #15
vbezhenar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These processors have NPU (Neural Processing Unit) which is supposed to accelerate some small local neural networks. Nvidia RTX GPUs have much more powerful NPUs, so it's more about laptops without discrete GPU.

And as far as I can see, it's a total waste of silicon. Anything running in it will anyway be so underpowered that it doesn't matter. It'd be better to dedicate the transistors to the GPU. The latest Ryzen mobile CPU line didn't improve performance compared to its predecessor (the integrated GPU is actually worse), and I think the NPU is to blame.

If you ask NVIDIA, inference should always run on the GPU. If you ask anybody else designing chips for consumer devices, they say there's a benefit to having a low-power NPU that's separate from the GPU.

Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#102

Post by wtallis »

klardotsh wrote: post #13
sandGorgon wrote: post #10

this doesnt have integrated ram like lunar lake right ?

Nearly all modern SOCs have built in RAM now. Apple Silicon does it, AMD Strix Halo and beyond do it, Intel Lunar Lake does it, most ARM SOCs from vendors other than Apple do it… Now, unified memory shared freely between CPU and GPU would be cool, like Apple and AMD SH have, if that’s what you meant.

AMD Strix Halo does not have on-package RAM. What makes it stand out from other x86 SoCs is that it has more memory channels, for a total of a 256-bit wide bus compared to 128-bit wide for all other recent consumer x86 processors.

Qualcomm's laptop chips thus far have also not had on-package RAM. They have announced that the top model from their upcoming Snapdragon X2 family will have a 192-bit wide memory bus, but the rest will still have a 128-bit memory bus.

Intel Lunar Lake did have on-package RAM, running at 8533 MT/s. This new Panther Lake family from Intel will run at 9600 MT/s for some of the configurations, with off-package RAM. All still with a 128-bit memory bus.

Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#103

Post by lostlogin »

kergonath wrote: post #72
lostlogin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is very consistent. You have the MacBook Air (lighter, more portable variant) and the MacBook Pro (more expensive and powerful variant). What about the iBook? That wasn’t tidy. Ebooks or laptops? Or the iPhone 9? That didn’t exist. Or MacOS? Versioning got a bit weird after 10.9, due the X thing. They do mess around with model numbers and have just done it again with the change to year numbers. I don’t partic…

> What about the iBook? That wasn’t tidy. Ebooks or laptops? Back then, there were iBooks (entry-level) and PowerBooks (professional, high performance and expensive). There had been PowerBooks since way back in 1991, well before any ebook reader. I am not sure what your gripe is. > Or the iPhone 9? That didn’t exist. There’s a hole in the series. In what way is it a problem, and how on earth is it similar to the situ…

You were saying that Apple is very consistent. I’m pointing out they aren’t particularly.

> It never got weird. After 10.9.5 came 10.10.0. Version numbers are not decimals.

They turned one of the numbers into a letter then started numbering again.

There was Mac OS 9, then Mac OS X. That got incremented up past 10.

You say they don’t mess around with model numbers. Yes they do, with software and hardware.

I like using them both.

Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#104

Post by wtallis »

stockresearcher wrote: post #76
webdevver wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i cant believe we're still putting NPUs into new designs. silicon taken up that couldve been used for a few more compute units on the GPU, which is often faster at inference anyway and way more useful/flexible/programmable/documented.

Every modern chip needs some percentage dedicated to dark silicon. There is no cheating the thermal reality. You could add more compute units in the GPU, but you then have to make up for it somewhere else. It’s a balancing act. The Core Ultra lineup is supposed to be low-power, low-heat, right? If you want more compute power, pick something from a different product series.

> Every modern chip needs some percentage dedicated to dark silicon. There is no cheating the thermal reality. You could add more compute units in the GPU, but you then have to make up for it somewhere else. It’s a balancing act.

I think that "dark silicon" mentality is mostly lingering trauma from when the industry first hit a wall with the end of Dennard scaling. These days, it's quite clear that you can have a chip that's more or less fully utilized, certainly with no "dark" blocks that are as large as a NPU. You just need to have the ability to run the chip at lower clock speeds to stay within power and thermal constraints—something that was not well-developed in 2005's processors. For the kind of parallel compute that GPUs and NPUs tackle, adding more cores but running them at lower clock speeds and lower voltages usually does result in better efficiency in practice.

The real answer to the GPU vs NPU question isn't that the GPU couldn't grow, but that the NPU has a drastically different architecture making very different power vs performance tradeoffs that theoretically give it a niche of use cases where the NPU is a better choice than the GPU for some inference tasks.

Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#105

Post by jhickok »

octoberfranklin wrote: post #11
DrammBA wrote: post #2

> Today at CES, Intel unveiled Intel Core Ultra Series 3 processors, the first AI PC platform built on Intel 18A process technology that was designed and manufactured in the United States. Powering over 200 designs from leading, global partners, Series 3 will be the most broadly adopted and globally available AI PC platform Intel has ever delivered. What in the world is this disaster of an opening paragraph? From the…

Laptop names are even worse: > Are ZBooks good or do I want an OmniBook or ProBook? Within ZBook, is Ultra or Fury better? Do I want a G1a or a G1i? Oh you sell ZBook Firefly G11, I liked that TV show, is that one good? https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2025/11/29/bikes...

TIL Geohot pretty much want the exact same thing in a laptop. Basically a Macbook Pro running Linux.

Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#106

Post by wtallis »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #80
bryanlarsen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is claiming that Panther lake has 30% better battery life than Lunar Lake.

Perhaps in a vacuum… On package memory is claimed to be a 40% reduction in power consumption. To beat actual LL by 30%, it means the PL chip must actually be ~58% more efficient in an apples-to-apples non-SoC configuration. Possible if they doped PL’s silicon with magic pixie dust.

> On package memory is claimed to be a 40% reduction in power consumption.

40% reduction in what power consumption? I don't think memory is usually responsible for even 40% of the total SoC + memory power, and bringing memory on-package doesn't make it consume negative power.

Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#107

Post by DannyBee »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #71
w-m wrote: post #52

“With Series 3, we are laser focused on improving power efficiency, adding more CPU performance, a bigger GPU in a class of its own, more AI compute and app compatibility you can count on with x86.” – Jim Johnson, Senior Vice President and General Manager, Client Computing Group, Intel A laser focus on five things is either business nonsense or optics nonsense. Who was this written for?

Can't we just focus on everything?

I think you mean laser focus on everything. Maybe they have a prism.

Re: Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Debut as First Built on Intel 18A

#110

Post by smallmancontrov »

daneel_w wrote: post #108

Is Intel's 18A (~2nm) their own hardware or did they acquire ASML equipment for this plant?

Intel never made EUV machines, never claimed to make EUV machines, never aspired to make EUV machines, and have run multiple marketing campaigns bragging about the ASML EUV machines they purchased.
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