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How AI labs are solving the power problem

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Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#101

Post by g8oz »

>>xAI entirely bypassed the grid and generated power onsite, using truck-mounted gas turbines and engines.

These generators polluted the nearby historically black neighborhoods in Memphis Tennessee with nitrogen oxides. Residents are afraid to open their windows, with the elderly, children and those suffering from conditions like COPD particularly affected. Lawsuits alleging environmental racism are pending.

xAI says cleaner generators will be installed but I think this episode shows that we cannot allow public interests to be compromised by private sector so easily just because they scream: Jobs! Investment!

https://time.com/7308925/elon-musk-memphis-ai-data-center/

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#102

Post by justincormack »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #99
O5vYtytb wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many batteries is that? If we're talking solar and you have say a 300MW datacenter and you need it to operate for 12 hours without sun you need at least two of the largest battery install in the world[1] at 1700MWh. That doesn't factor cloudy days. [1] https://www.heise.de/en/news/850-MW-World-s-largest-battery-...

Another POV is, if datacenters are really constrained by power, by all means, offer users a discount when their queries utilize solar. Millions of Americans drive further to save cents to fill up their tanks - you can’t say there isn’t precedent among normal people to deal with this. The better question is, is it really a constraint?

Doesnt really work, as the biggest cost is buying GPUs etc which has to be paid for, and leaving them idle when the sun isnt shining doesnt pay the purchase costs. Their are industries where this does work though.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#103

Post by tehjoker »

jstummbillig wrote: post #66
saghm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I guess I'm not the target audience for this because I assumed that "the power problem" was "massive increase in electricity costs for people despite virtually unchanged usage on their part", not "AI companies have to wait too long to be able to start using even more power than they already are": > Nicole Pastore, who has lived in her large stone home near Baltimore’s Johns Hopkins University campus for 18 years…

I understand the instinct but if people seriously think that they are solving any problem by unplugging cell phone chargers, they are simply bad at math. Human time is easily worth more than that, even when working at minimum wage. That said, it obviously sucks that utility prices are rising for people who can not effortlessly cover that (not to speak of the local pollution, if that's an issue). Maybe some special ta…

How many paid hours do they get? Human time isn't fungible with paid hours.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#104

Post by twerka-stonk »

I enjoyed the detailed article despite how depressing it is. I never can blame business for finding a market-palatable solution.

However, it is worth saying that xAI’s “solution” was illegal, unhealthy for the local constituents, and stinks of corruption, https://insideclimatenews.org/news/17072025/elon-musk-xai-da....

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#105

Post by AkelaA »

Aurornis wrote: post #76
codingdave wrote: post #35

This is a really long way of saying "We need to burn fossil fuels to make more money." It didn't make long-term sense for our world before AI. It makes no more sense with AI.

> This is a really long way of saying "We need to burn fossil fuels to make more money." Like every other industry in the world? I’m kind of amazed that AI data centers have become the political talking point for topics like water usage and energy use when they’re just doing what every other energy-intensive industry does. The food arriving at your grocery store and the building materials that built your house also c…

We need food and housing. We don't need AI.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#106

Post by mhb »

g8oz wrote: post #101

>>xAI entirely bypassed the grid and generated power onsite, using truck-mounted gas turbines and engines. These generators polluted the nearby historically black neighborhoods in Memphis Tennessee with nitrogen oxides. Residents are afraid to open their windows, with the elderly, children and those suffering from conditions like COPD particularly affected. Lawsuits alleging environmental racism are pending. xAI says…

Why is the skin tone of the residents of the affected community relevant?

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#107

Post by [deleted] »

sam-cop-vimes wrote: post #59
thrance wrote: post #27

> Eighteen months ago, Elon Musk shocked the datacenter industry by building a 100,000-GPU cluster in four months. Multiple innovations enabled this incredible achievement, but the energy strategy was the most impressive. xAI entirely bypassed the grid and generated power onsite, using truck-mounted gas turbines and engines. Wow, "truck-mounted gas turbines"? Who else could have mastered such a futuristic tech in so…

I'm no fan of Musk, but you've got to admit it was a clever way to achieve the goal. SemiAnalysis don't do fanboy articles - their research is pretty in-depth. So they are stating it as they see it. The problem ordinary people all over the world have is that governments are allowing this to happen. Maybe if there were stricter regulation it will prevent players such as Musk to come up with such "innovations".

[deleted]

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#108

Post by badc0ffee »

g8oz wrote: post #101

>>xAI entirely bypassed the grid and generated power onsite, using truck-mounted gas turbines and engines. These generators polluted the nearby historically black neighborhoods in Memphis Tennessee with nitrogen oxides. Residents are afraid to open their windows, with the elderly, children and those suffering from conditions like COPD particularly affected. Lawsuits alleging environmental racism are pending. xAI says…

I'm a bit skeptical about this. I know diesel generators make these kind of pollutants, but I haven't heard the same about natural gas.

My city has a big NG facility downtown that pipes heated water to a bunch of buildings, and it is surrounded by condos. I've never heard anything about it impacting the air (other than CO2 which is a global and not local issue).

Every building here (except for those connected to district heating systems), large and small, has a natural gas boiler or furnace. We have also several NG plants generating electricity within city limits. Again, localized pollution is not what concerns people about these things. Coal plants, on the other hand, tended to be way outside the city when they were still in operation.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#109

Post by AkelaA »

I think it's funny that at no point in the article do they mention the idea of simply making LLMs more efficient. I guess that's not important when all you care about is winning the AI "race" rather then selling a long term sustainable product.

Re: How AI labs are solving the power problem

#110

Post by ladidahh »

mhb wrote: post #106
g8oz wrote: post #101

>>xAI entirely bypassed the grid and generated power onsite, using truck-mounted gas turbines and engines. These generators polluted the nearby historically black neighborhoods in Memphis Tennessee with nitrogen oxides. Residents are afraid to open their windows, with the elderly, children and those suffering from conditions like COPD particularly affected. Lawsuits alleging environmental racism are pending. xAI says…

Why is the skin tone of the residents of the affected community relevant?

In the US, we have a living history of discriminatory policies based on race

https://www.thesidewalksymposium.com/blog/the-enduring-shado... , here is a quick overview of redlining in Memphis

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