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I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

blog.matthewbrunelle.com

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Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#101

Post by neogodless »

Etheryte wrote: post #58
Esophagus4 wrote: post #53

I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going. (I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that…

I can't even recall when I last needed USB-A, literally everything I have uses USB-C (or bluetooth for mouse and keyboard). What do you use it for?

Current items in my possession that are still in use and use USB-A

* keyboard

* mouse dongle

* webcam

* microphone

* mouse charging cable

* smart watch charging cable

* SATA hard drive dock

* 32GB and 64GB USB memory sticks

Things that use USB-C

* new SD card reader

* new headphones dongle

* smart phone charging cable

Some of the above could maybe be replaced with a USB-C equivalent, but they are still working and I'm still using them. Why waste money and create waste replacing them?

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#102

Post by vel0city »

fullstop wrote: post #72
astra1701 wrote: post #49

The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilo…

I was hoping that this is how it would work for System76 -- when I bought the laptop they sold replacement batteries. Five years later I find myself needing a battery and they are unavailable -- not on System76's website, not online, nowhere. My only option is to either replace the laptop or buy a used one and take the battery from that, hoping that it's good. For the last six months I've just been using a laptop as…

A lot of System76 laptops are essentially rebadged versions of Chinese or Taiwanese ODMs. You might have some luck trying to research what model the ODM produces the laptop as and find replacement batteries for that instead of focusing on finding System76 branded batteries.

Hope you find your batteries.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#103

Post by Klonoar »

rozenmd wrote: post #36
999900000999 wrote: post #3

>You can't change the RAM on laptops now. >You can't change the SSD on laptops now. I literally just brought a laptop 3 weeks ago and I've already upgraded both of those. It's a newer model with an RTX GPU. I think framework has potential, but it's going to be a decade to see how things pan out. Will I be able to use the same mainboard for a decade? So far what I'm seeing is a laptop brand which charges between 50% a…

I love my thinkpad, wrote up my experience with the Thinkpad T480 last year: https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t... and a quick buyers guide here: https://maxrozen.com/getting-your-own-good-enough-laptop-for...

The HN thread responding to your T480 article is all that's needed to understand why it's not really a replacement for a MBP:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34878240

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#104

Post by fullstop »

vel0city wrote: post #102
fullstop wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping that this is how it would work for System76 -- when I bought the laptop they sold replacement batteries. Five years later I find myself needing a battery and they are unavailable -- not on System76's website, not online, nowhere. My only option is to either replace the laptop or buy a used one and take the battery from that, hoping that it's good. For the last six months I've just been using a laptop as…

A lot of System76 laptops are essentially rebadged versions of Chinese or Taiwanese ODMs. You might have some luck trying to research what model the ODM produces the laptop as and find replacement batteries for that instead of focusing on finding System76 branded batteries. Hope you find your batteries.

Yes, I went down the clevo path as well. No dice, it does not exist.

I found a few which said "in stock" but was refunded each time as the part didn't actually exist.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#105

Post by jutter »

I don't care about the upgradeability or repairability. I think that people espousing these points need a reality check - other laptops aren't that bad for repairability (I have always had Alienwares, and have had no trouble sourcing and installing parts in laptops even 10+ years old), and piecemeal upgrades really don't make sense in the long term. Framework also seems to have attracted a certain type of activist that I won't get into here (they're very opinionated about the company's donations).

I've ordered a Framework 16, though. Not for any of that crap, but just to be able to customise it. That's what I love. They should really lean in to this.

Once the eco and repairability nonsense has faded - and it will, because it's marketing fluff - you still have a laptop that is extremely versatile from a company that doesn't hate you. It's not bloated with spyware by default, the checkout process isn't full of dark patterns, they support and encourage you to use it how you want to use it.

Lean in. Make more modules. Make better modules. Assist the community more with new and varied modules. It's crazy that eGPU and dual USB modules are primarily driven by amateur forum volunteers rather than being major priorities for Framework's engineers. Design a low-profile mechanical keyboard, I don't care for your excuses. Give us proper touchpad options with buttons. Keyboard modules with scroll wheels and panning for CAD.

These are what makes Framework special. In 3 or 4 years it's going to be thrown on the same pile as all of my other old laptops, never to be upgraded or repaired again. I don't care for that. I just want a laptop customised for my needs over that time, rather than fighting against the antagonistic whims of Dell et al.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#106

Post by zikduruqe »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #90
Esophagus4 wrote: post #53

I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going. (I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that…

The problem is that the Framework starts so far behind in performance and battery efficiency of a cheaper Macbook that you aren’t saving money on perf upgrades. You really do have to buy it for the idea rather than the reality.

> Framework starts so far behind in performance ...

Honest question and not meant to flame anyone. What benchmark are you referring to regarding performance; spec sheets or your tools are not working correctly or working slowly?

Just trying to understand users needs in upgrading. I have some new MacBooks and some old linux laptops. They both equally work just fine for what I need to do, and I am starting to question the need for me to update to a new MacBook M* chipset moving forward.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#107

Post by dangus »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #90
Esophagus4 wrote: post #53

I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going. (I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that…

The problem is that the Framework starts so far behind in performance and battery efficiency of a cheaper Macbook that you aren’t saving money on perf upgrades. You really do have to buy it for the idea rather than the reality.

Find me a new MacBook Air that’s $1000 for 2TB of storage + 32GB of RAM, because that’s what I paid for my Framework 13 brand new (before RAM insanity, but this would still only cost about $1200 today).

A $50 battery pack solved the battery efficiency problem.

So for a little extra weight (external battery + FW13 weighs the same as a MB Pro 14”) I get a lot more actual capability in places that matters than a base MacBook Air.

I’ve got two more USB-C/Thunderbolt ports than the Air on both sides of the system with the option to swap them for any I/O I want.

And I’m not stuck with macOS arbitrarily dropping support for my non-upgradable all-soldered hardware every 10 years.

(I also couldn’t really find a similar Lenovo at anything close to that price/spec with the kind of requirements I have - good keyboard with low flex, nice to haves like the 3:2 aspect ratio, generally a programmer-oriented laptop with good. My second choice might be a Lenovo ThinkPad X9 15 Aura Edition. The T14 series has unacceptable deck flex. Even value systems like the IdeaPad 5i 16 cost more. I could see myself enjoying a Zenbook like the Zenbook Duo but again it costs more).

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#108

Post by neogodless »

999900000999 wrote: post #3

>You can't change the RAM on laptops now. >You can't change the SSD on laptops now. I literally just brought a laptop 3 weeks ago and I've already upgraded both of those. It's a newer model with an RTX GPU. I think framework has potential, but it's going to be a decade to see how things pan out. Will I be able to use the same mainboard for a decade? So far what I'm seeing is a laptop brand which charges between 50% a…

I think laptop gamers, and developers that use gaming laptops for work machines are somewhat niche (and I'm in that niche).

Because PC gamers often buy desktops. And console gamers buy consoles while handheld gamers buy handhelds and smartphone gamers...

Then there are other kinds of laptop users... the various Macbook users from the lightweight travel Air to the beefy desktop replacement 16" Macbook Pro, and the Windows business laptop users, and the Linux laptop users.

(I think we'd all do well to remember the variety in computers and computer users...)

So yeah, I've rarely bought anything but a gaming laptop that could easily be upgraded via RAM or SSD, and when I've bought non-upgradeable laptops (a tiny Asus 2-in-1 touchscreen) I found it just wasn't for me and I ended up selling it.

My favorite gaming laptops... Lenovo Legion 5 Pro, Acer Nitro 16. My spouse uses a Legion 5 Pro. My sister uses my 5+ year old Legion 5. They've all been a combination of good or great screen, great keyboard, good hardware, pretty quiet except when cranking up for demanding games, and so far all have been reliable, upgradeable, etc. We don't tend to use them on battery, but I've found that they tend to do 4-5 hours easily for basic usage. I wouldn't expect them to do well at all when pulling 100+ W for gaming. (My sister had an older Nitro and the quality was lacking, but I've been impressed by my 2023 model.)

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#109

Post by [deleted] »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #90
Esophagus4 wrote: post #53

I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going. (I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that…

The problem is that the Framework starts so far behind in performance and battery efficiency of a cheaper Macbook that you aren’t saving money on perf upgrades. You really do have to buy it for the idea rather than the reality.

[deleted]

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#110

Post by magicalhippo »

systemtest wrote: post #34

I work international (somewhat of a digital nomad) so perhaps I’m an outlier in my usage. I have an M1 MacBook Pro that I bought new at release. I can’t replace the memory or storage. But so far I didn’t need to do that. In case it breaks, I walk to my nearby electronics store and purchase a new MacBook Pro. With Time Machine restore I am up an running within an hour. The M1 goes onto the pile of stuff to repair late…

This is why I have a solid desktop and then just RDP into it.

The laptop can then be whatever and if it breaks or gets stolen it's not a big deal. I don't need an expensive laptop and all my stuff is on the desktop so nothing to lose.

Does require a somewhat decent internet connection but nothing special.

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