Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

garbagecollected.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 192 posts

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#101

Post by dpoloncsak »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #93
dpoloncsak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you're replying to is in a discussion about the possibility that the Steam Machine will be sold at a loss, as they would be able to re-coup the funds in sales on Steam. In this example, no, Valve would not be ecstatic if they were snapped up for things other than Steam use. Sony tried this with the playstation, and the military bought them out as cheap linux compute, costing Sony thousands > relevant arti…

The comment says "any significant cost less than the " It's not talking about selling at a loss. And that was a reply to my comment saying that nobody sells their consoles at a loss in 2025.

Oh...I must have misread something somewhere along the thread. My apologies

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#102

Post by nitwit005 »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #5

Well, Valve got seriously concerned about the Windows Store, like, a decade ago, since that could have reduced the stranglehold of Steam on the gaming marketplace. Turns out that the usual Microsoft incompetence-and-ADHD have kind-of eliminated that threat all by itself. Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. Still: are consumers better off today than…

Outside of XBox, Minecraft, and journalists trying it out, I don't think I've heard of anyone using the Microsoft store.

The Wikipedia page has quite the description of the view from within Microsoft:

> Phil Spencer, head of Microsoft's gaming division, has also opined that Microsoft Store "sucks". As a result, Office was removed as an installable app from the store, and made to redirect to its website.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Store

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#103

Post by hbn »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #5

Well, Valve got seriously concerned about the Windows Store, like, a decade ago, since that could have reduced the stranglehold of Steam on the gaming marketplace. Turns out that the usual Microsoft incompetence-and-ADHD have kind-of eliminated that threat all by itself. Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. Still: are consumers better off today than…

I'm all for MS bashing and laughing at their incompetence, but was there really any threat there? I don't know anyone on PC who was interested in buying a game anywhere other than Steam in 2015.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#104

Post by glenstein »

ee64a4a wrote: post #63
glenstein wrote: post #7

>that this is actually Steam Machine 2.0. Valve already tried this a decade ago, and it flopped. I find this framing to be beyond maddening. Sure, it wasn't an iPod, and if you measure it against that kind of expectation, of course it's a flop, because it wasn't an overnight success. But I think it's more appropriately understood as a soft launch of an ecosystem, to strategically rebalance Valve away from the potenti…

>> that this is actually Steam Machine 2.0. Valve already tried this a decade ago, and it flopped. > I find this framing to be beyond maddening [...] > It was also a thoughtful partnering with hardware vendors As numerous post-mortems (some of which I quoted in the article) recount, the hardware partners themselves largely consider their experiment back then a flop as well. > But it was a thoughtful, intelligent long…

Fair point on the vendors - surely they hoped to make $$ from it. But I think you're underestimating the significance of standing up Proton and the critical experience working through bugs and getting experience with hardware, and gradually growing the inventory of compatible games. Simply put, there's no Steam Deck without the Steam Machine, which says everything about the value of the Steam Machine.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#105

Post by stackskipton »

hbn wrote: post #103
ZeroConcerns wrote: post #5

Well, Valve got seriously concerned about the Windows Store, like, a decade ago, since that could have reduced the stranglehold of Steam on the gaming marketplace. Turns out that the usual Microsoft incompetence-and-ADHD have kind-of eliminated that threat all by itself. Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. Still: are consumers better off today than…

I'm all for MS bashing and laughing at their incompetence, but was there really any threat there? I don't know anyone on PC who was interested in buying a game anywhere other than Steam in 2015.

Sure, if they pulled Apple and locked everyone into only installing from Microsoft Store, Steam would have been in serious trouble.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#106

Post by 0x457 »

hbn wrote: post #103
ZeroConcerns wrote: post #5

Well, Valve got seriously concerned about the Windows Store, like, a decade ago, since that could have reduced the stranglehold of Steam on the gaming marketplace. Turns out that the usual Microsoft incompetence-and-ADHD have kind-of eliminated that threat all by itself. Also: turns out that, if you put enough effort into it, Linux is actually a quite-usable gaming platform. Still: are consumers better off today than…

I'm all for MS bashing and laughing at their incompetence, but was there really any threat there? I don't know anyone on PC who was interested in buying a game anywhere other than Steam in 2015.

People feared that MS will make installing things not from the store harder. Like what apple is doing. It posed a serious potential threat. Given that MS had complete control over the Windows, DirectX and many other tools developers were using.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#107

Post by codeflo »

kemayo wrote: post #3
CuriouslyC wrote: post #2

Valve has a spear lined up at so much of big tech right now it's honestly impressive they've done it in stealth for so long. Google, Microsoft and Apple are all in the crosshairs in a big way, and I don't think they can avoid the blow that's coming without cannibalizing their margins.

I'm not sure they've got Apple targeted so much, because Apple has been so thoroughly not-invested in gaming. The place they're closest to colliding is VR, but Apple's Vision headset is doing something really different from Valve's VR products, which are far more directly lined up against Meta's Oculus. Valve could branch into Apple's areas, but they don't seem particularly interested in doing so yet. EDIT: rather, A…

> Apple cares a lot about phone gaming

The kind of gacha games that dominate the in-app sales charts, sure. Actual gaming, they don't care about or even understand.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#108

Post by 0x457 »

kelnos wrote: post #86
beAbU wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the windows build already performs better than on native windows, why faff around with another build target and all its associated complexities (testing, etc). Targeting Linux means probably targeting all distros, and that's asking for trouble I reckon.

> Targeting Linux means probably targeting all distros Valve actually distributes a runtime (or at least used to), that's based on Ubuntu, and provides a stable target for developers who want to release a Linux port. But I agree in general with your point; if the Windows build already performs great on Linux through Proton, why go through the effort to release a native Linux build?

They still distribute runtime(s). Proton runs inside one of those runtimes. You're talking about 1.0 version, 2.0 was based on debian 10, and 3.0 is based on debian 11.

It still has some assumptions about host system, though, but that's a problem for those who package steam. For example, my non-FHS NixOS provides everything required, and it works out-of-the-box.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#109

Post by 0x457 »

echelon wrote: post #69
mschuster91 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple darn well knew what people want - even the first iPhone, the one that didn't even have an App Store (which got invented as a concept by jailbreakers proving it was possible!), came with YouTube and Maps from the start. What I don't know however why Microsoft insisted on the ability to not show ads and download videos when copying that concept. They had to know that they were directly cutting into Google's botto…

> What I don't know however why Microsoft insisted on the ability to not show ads and download videos when copying that concept. They had to know that they were directly cutting into Google's bottom line. There's a long backstory here. Microsoft tried everything to get YouTube on Windows Phone. At one point, they negotiated with Google and Google said they were going to work on an app. That didn't happen. Microsoft t…

> At one point, they negotiated with Google and Google said they were going to work on an app.

MS made that offer to probably every developer on top 100 on ios/android stores. That usually meant some small shop in Eastern Europe will be contracted.

Re: Valve is running Apple's playbook in reverse

#110

Post by tracker1 »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #76
ShowalkKama wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

becuase the one he linked is from this year, the one you linked is from 10 years ago

And yet, not much has changed in that decade, right? Well, other than the Steam Deck, which is a well-defined set of hardware for a specific purpose, and which is the main driver for Linux game compatibility... And that's great! But for a random owner of random hardware. the experience is, well... same as it ever was?

> But for a random owner of random hardware. the experience is, well... same as it ever was?

Far from it... the only area you tend to see much issue with a current Linux distro is a few wifi/bt and ethernet chips that don't have good Linux support. Most hardware works just fine. I've installed Pop on a number of laptops and desktops this past year and only had a couple issues (wifi/bt, and ethernet) in those cases it's either installing a proprietary driver or swapping the card with one that works.

Steam has been pretty great this past year as well, especially since Kernel 6.16, it's just been solid AF. I know people with similar experience with Fedora variants.

I think the Steam Deck's success with Proton and what that means for Linux all around is probably responsible for at least half of those who have tried/converted to Linux the past couple years. By some metrics as much as 3-5% in some markets, which small is still a massive number of people. 3-5 Million regular users of Desktop Linux in the US alone. That's massive potential. And with the groundwork for Flatpak and Proton that has been taken, there's definitely some opportunity for early movers in more productivity software groups, not just open-source.

Post reply on HN