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Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

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Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#101

Post by talmand »

gallerytungsten wrote: post #84
talmand wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a risk? What's wrong with ordering a car from Amazon? Or do you mean it's a risk from the dealers' perspective? Because I get that and personally don't care.

The risk is that a whole bunch of middlemen who don't add much (if any) value would get cut out of the equation. The dealers are well aware that their business model is despised by buyers, hence the forest of protectionist law that they've purchased over the years.

Thus, why I don't care if they fail and are wiped out.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#102

Post by artursapek »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #54
artursapek wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's any industry begging to be "disrupted," it's the automotive industry.

True, and Tesla has been the biggest disruptor. But barriers to entry are huge, and regulation really clamps down on "disruption". You know all those awesome concept cars you see at car shows that never get built? One reason nothing revolutionary comes out is that the industry is regulated to the max. Much of it is "safety" features, which may be well and good, but much of those "safety" constraints are arbitrary. Bu…

Let's hope the government sees Tesla as the exception it is and lets them do their thing.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#103

Post by icebraining »

btilly wrote: post #60

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Every one of these sales takes place over the internet, and across state lines. This is interstate commerce. How then are states able to regulate it?

It's not that simple: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/stateco...

Since the regulations aren't applied specifically to out-of-state businesses, and considering that many states have the same laws (hence there's no unreasonable burden on out-of-state businesses), they may be legal.

I'm not a lawyer either, though.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#104

Post by sixQuarks »

Henry Ford was the one that started the independent dealer model. It made sense back then, because there was no way he could handle both the manufacture and distribution of the vehicles across the nation.

Today, the average dealer makes about $750,000 in profit each year. Many of these dealers are family owned and very active with local politics. In many smaller cities, the car dealership provides a good portion of tax revenues.

With all this said, dealerships have incredible clout when it comes to legislation. They pretty much ruined TrueCar.com's business model.

I think Tesla will be forced to offer independent distribution at some point if they get larger. And I've read that they are planning to do so. The dealer lobby is just way too strong in this country.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#105

Post by bryanlarsen »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #21
talmand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be a rather unpleasant experience, plus it makes me feel bad to immediately hate the person before I get to know his/her style of selling. I know it's unfair but when that salesperson walks up I'm immediately "just go away and leave me alone". Plus the sad fact is that the salesperson is the middleman of the manager, who is the middleman of the financier, who is the middleman of the dealership. There are proba…

> Why can't cars be sold just like any other product? Because then they run the risk of getting Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd.

They'd still make lots of money from their service department, so I wouldn't feel sorry for them.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#106

Post by EliAndrewC »

cs702 wrote: post #3

Anyone who's ever bought a car knows firsthand how unpleasant it is to deal with traditional car dealers. The price of every vehicle is fully negotiable but the negotiating room is opaque.[1] Key car features and options are bundled in arbitrary packages and priced in ways that make pricing even more opaque. Car salesmen (they're typically men) almost always have a fake smile on their face and come across as smooth-t…

Completely agree - even when the salesmen behave exactly as you'd want them to, it's still a stressful experience because of the price opacity.

When my wife and I bought our current car, we researched the average price for that year/model and resolved not to pay more than that, even though the price we were quoted was much higher. So we went to the dealer and noticed that the price on the sticker was LOWER than the price we'd planned to demand.

We quickly conferred, "Well, it says that $200 of that price is for the mudflaps, we should at least demand that we not have to pay for those since we don't care about them." So the salesman ends up quoting us a price even LOWER than we'd planned to ask for. We looked at each other, shrugged uncertainly, and said "sure, that's fine."

Objectively we ended up paying less than we'd planned when we walked into the dealership, but we felt significantly less happy about it! Later on we kicked ourselves for being caught too off guard to do any haggling; we probably could have knocked at least a few hundred dollars off, and even if not there would have been no harm in asking. There's something to be said for not having to hassle with haggling if you find it unpleasant (as we do), but it's a perverse system that gives you a better deal than you were expecting and makes you feel worse for it.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#108

Post by gcb »

Khao wrote: post #53
jetti wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that there are some states that just prohibit the sales of vehicles on Sunday. That is what I find amazing. I can't imagine being told that one day a week I'm not allowed to sell my product.

In Québec auto dealers are only allowed to be open on weekdays. I can't see why our province (or maybe it's a Canadian law I'm not sure) needs to pass a law to prohibit car sales on the week-end.

It's usually work laws.

They are not forbidden to sell, but to ask the employees to be there on Sunday. If they wanted to have a Sunday shift they'd have to hire other employees

In Spain iheard it's similar... most huge supermarkets open late Friday and Sunday, because they pay another shift of employees.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#109

Post by illuminate »

freehunter wrote: post #22
tomrod wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 3? I figured Radioshack/Bestbuy belong in this category in the long run. Would be interesting discussion on what industries denizens of HN think will fall in this manner.

Radio Shack made themselves obsolete. I don't think Best Buy is obsolete, but merely needs a restructuring. Radio Shack used to be great when you were working on a project and just needed one more part; a capacitor, a motor/servo, a PIC, etc. I don't need another phone reseller, I don't need useless RC cars, I don't need odd TV remotes. I need an electronics store that sells electronic parts. Best Buy is great for re…

"Best Buy is great for researching your purchases."

It would be, if they had enough of a selection to peruse.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#110

Post by bryanlarsen »

lysol wrote: post #32
tzaman wrote: post #26

True story (mine): I knew a car dealer that made it very clear to me that if I buy the new car from him (and leave the old one there for a lower price) he'll give me significant discount. I said to myself "can't hurt to try" and went this route. The next day after owning the car (which I still own) the new owner of my old car called to ask what's the realistic condition. Turns out the dealer sold him the car for abou…

This is normal. The dealer makes very little from a new car. They have to recoup that from trade-ins and selling used cars, which have a higher margin. New cars don't offer a lot of wiggle room because the invoice price for them is set, and they already sell them for little profit.

Not to mention the juicy profits they make from their service department.
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