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If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

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Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#101

By this logic owners of wheel barrows should be taxed for all the manual labour jobs the wheel barrow destroyed.

By your logic wheel barrows could potentially replace >90% of all jobs.

AI is on track to being able to remove a society-changing amount of jobs, wheel barrows improved worker's efficiency.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#102
post #93

Looking at the actual article, the people suggesting taxes on AI are American Nobel laureate Edmund Phelps, and Bill Gates, founder of MSFT. The Europeans suggest more general taxes on capital instead.

The latter makes sense. We also don't let steam engines and carts pay taxes just because they 'replace' (=displace) human labor.

Don't tax tools or income, tax the accumulation of it: wealth.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#103
post #101

By this logic owners of wheel barrows should be taxed for all the manual labour jobs the wheel barrow destroyed.

By your logic wheel barrows could potentially replace >90% of all jobs. AI is on track to being able to remove a society-changing amount of jobs, wheel barrows improved worker's efficiency.

Industrialization did replace 90% of people's jobs. And the only thing that happened was that people got new jobs to do.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#104

Taxes are to fund government. Isn't the idea for AI and robotics to replace government? No taxes.

No? Taxes are to provide public services, facilities and infrastructure.

Aren't "public services, facilities and infrastructure" provided by government?

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#106
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you still feel you arent losing when your job is gone and thus your income and woops there goes your home because you cant afford your rent/mortgage anymore.

Rent/mortgage would be dirt cheap if you didn't have to live near a job.

It's never been easier to live far from your job, yet rent/mortgage prices are higher than ever.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#107
post #27

"In the United States, for example, about 85% of federal tax revenue comes from labor income" That's the problem. AI has the same tax problems as corporations. But US corporate taxes are historically very low and easy to evade.

It should have come from wealth and assets instead.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#108

Why not just tax wealth at steeply progressive rates? If the robots result in increased wealth inequality, a wealth tax will counteract that. If not, then it means the introduction of robots led to more broadly-based benefits. Either way, I'm so sick and tired of people talking about the effect on GDP. GDP is a terrible way to measure anything remotely meaningful. GDP has gone up and up and things have gotten worse a…

Taxing income is straightforward in that there is a stream of it going by and some of it can be diverted. Taxing wealth is difficult because you don't really know what it is. Arguably the value of a publicly traded corporation can be known because it is being traded continually. [1] For a privately held corporation it's quite opaque. Right now, for instance, Open AI is estimated to be worth $500B and might IPO at $1T…

I think I am fine with taking an approach to that that is just brutally tilted against large values and brutally tilted in favor of transparency. So like, you can't do anything with your ownership share in that privately-held company --- can't use it as collateral for a loan, can't present it to investors to get more funding, can't trade it, can't sell it, can't in any way derive any benefit from it --- without committing yourself to a valuation and paying a tax on the increase in the valuation since the last such assessment. Also you can have a "sound dues"-like system where committing yourself to such a valuation also gives the government the right to immediately compel you to sell them the asset at your valuation. Any inaccuracies or procedural missteps in these calculations will incur minimal penalties until the amounts in question rise above a threshold (maybe like $50 million), at which point attempts to conceal or misrepresent the value of an asset is punishable by an increasing share of the asset, scaling up eventually to total forfeiture. All in all it should be excruciatingly painful to accumulate anything approaching the large wealth holdings we have today. Most of the large privately-held companies simply should not exist with the opaque valuations they have today. Either open the books completely, or lose everything.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#109

When I was young I imagined a future where nobody had to work because computers and robots could do it all.

I imagine this future could come true, if we're willing to accept that there would be many fewer people.

Just distribute the fruits of the automated labor.

The robots and automations are like the trees and bushes from our gatherer's past.

People would just take what they needed. No one would say: you are not allowed to take a berry from this bush because it's mine!!!

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