Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also not a big impact on the message, but $200/mo for a phone is a bit disingenuous.
I pay about that much for a family of 2.
How?
The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
101–110 of 431 posts
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#102The first sentence is your answer. The third word even. The healthcare market. MARKET Healthcare shouldn't be a market. That's why you're paying $40k.
I have the opposite viewpoint, and I lean heavily progressive in most of my views.
Healthcare in the United States isn't a market, and that is why it is so terrible. For instance, there is no reasonable ability to compare prices of services. Prices are entirely hidden. Then there is the "with insurance" price vs cash prices.
Healthcare doesn't function as a market, to our detriment.
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#103The first sentence is your answer. The third word even. The healthcare market. MARKET Healthcare shouldn't be a market. That's why you're paying $40k.
In economics 101 one of the first things they teach you is supply and demand, and inelastic goods. Food and healthcare are the two main examples of inelastic goods, where demand is heavily disconnected from supply. There are of course nuances (you can eat just beans and rice, or do the bare minimum of healthcare/medicine to survive), but both are not things you have a lot of choice to consume or not.
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#104So to summarize: a. you're paying that for health insurance, not for the birth of the child. If you, your wife, your children had any other diseases then those would be covered as well. This is a significant benefit. b. all the systems that subsidize health care for those less well off don't apply because you're wealthy. So you are bearing the full cost of extremely high quality health insurance in a western country.
How come other countries have better healthcare at lower real costs? Basically every developed nation has better healthcare outcomes than the US. All other nations have cheaper healthcare. America is not special, we've just brainwashed our less-observant citizens into believing that solutions the entire rest of the world uses will never and can never work here. There's nothing special about our population or economy…
As someone who has lived in several countries, I do not believe every developed nation achieves better healthcare outcomes than the United States. Many European countries, as well as Canada, offer some form of universal coverage with free general treatment but waiting times for appointments and procedures can vary widely. That said, I still think universal healthcare is preferable, as these systems tend to prioritize urgent cases effectively and ensure that emergency treatment is fully covered for free.
I think, it's only the Asian countries who have got cheap, easy, and effective healthcare where you can not only get appointments quickly but you can get treatment for cheap too but their emergency services are not always as streamlined as those in more developed systems. There is no clear overall winner. Some places excel in certain aspects. Others perform better in different areas.
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Claiming $200/month for a phone makes one wonder which numbers are valid. I'm not saying everyone needs to make a $100 phone last 5 years and use a $15/month plan, but I'm not even sure how I would get to $200/month in phone bill, even including financing an iPhone 17 Pro Max.
I pay that at least much for my family, hence why I used it
How many phones do you get for that?
My family has two phone lines for $50/mo, plus we buy two ~2 year old iPhones every 3-4 years, which adds maybe another $20/mo average to the cost.
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#106Over here in Australia, the most expensive part of my kid's birth were the AUD$200 antenatal classes. The prenatal checkups, hospital stay, and postnatal midwife home visits were all covered by Medicare. The flip side is that I lose ~30% of my pay to taxes. That's fine by me
I pay almost 40% in the US (including state and payroll).
Federal tax rate is 22-24% for most people. State can be anywhere from 0 to over 10%, depending on the state and income level. City taxes may exist. And then social security + Medicare.
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#107Because they can. For profit hospitals subsidized and enforced by the leviathan, what could go wrong? How much does something cost? Whatever the seller can get people to pay for it. Hospital B charges 6 figures for the delivery of a child? Wow, that's expensive, they must be really good to be able to charge that much. All the dark patterns, negative dynamics, perverse incentives of bad government, stupid healthcare p…
Completely removing the U.S. Government from the health care market (Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, uncompensated care, etc) would be a great start.
Why not go to the other extreme, as most other developed countries have done (and have lower healthcare per capita)?
Do you know any countries that have no government involvement in healthcare that has good health outcomes?
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
The amount of money the US Government pays just for that 40% should be enough to cover all 100%. We know this is possible because it happens in other countries, which have shorter waits and more coverage since that talking point keeps being brought up despite collapsing in the face of reality.
The quality of health care in the US is significantly higher than anywhere else in the world. Whether that quality is necessarily (or good) is debatable, but we are getting something for the money. You also are just completely wrong in your main point. We cannot provide the same efficacy of healthcare as we are now for 60% less. We are the richest country in the world, labor costs more here than other places.
> The quality of health care in the US is significantly higher than anywhere else in the world.
Health outcomes do not support that statement.
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#109Our first two children were born at the hospital. Both were induced. Everyone was healthy, but looking back each was a miserable, expensive, condescending experience.
After those experiences, my wife then went on a journey to learn everything she could about childbirth and healthcare. The more she learned, the more she became convinced that the entire system is flawed. The pressure to get an epidural, induce (conveniently between 8-5 on a weekday), or to use a C-section is immense. While each intervension is tremendously important in high-risk and edge cases, they are utterly unnecessary in the vast majority of births. But they are used for the majority of births, anyway. Some argue they may even have some damaging effects to the mother and child, but I concede that's not the medical mainstream opinion.
When my wife became pregnant with our third child, the delivery was during the Covid lockdown. Hospitals refused visitors, demanded masks, and were even more impersonal than normal. Although I was initially skeptical, she convinced me that we should use a birth center and a midwife. The birth center was practically next door to a hospital and we talked through how to mitigate risks if something went wrong.
It was a fantastic experience in nearly every way. Our son was born at 7:45 AM and we were home by 11:00 AM. It was substantially more affordable than a hospital birth.
My wife just had our fourth child earlier this year. Once again we used a midwife but this time we had a home birth. You couldn't have paid me to accept a home birth when we were new parents. I wish I knew then what I know now.
I know it's not for everybody (and especially those dealing with high-risk scenarios), but a midwife and home birth is an option if you want to avoid the hospital racket. It's significantly less expensive, more convenient, and every bit as safe for the vast majority of births.
Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fair, he's lucky enough to have not been in a major car accident that year, so he can attribute it all to the cost of giving birth. What would have been the out-of-pocket cost of a normal birth without health insurance? It's still your choice to go without.
No one is forcing you to give birth in a hospital. Rational people do it at home all the time to this day.
Many would say thats not rational