Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

medicalxpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 161 posts

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#101

Post by 01100011 »

binary132 wrote: post #50

Huh. I don’t know if I’m picking up what they’re putting down here, but it kind of sounds like suppressing fever e.g. with Tylenol would actually be bad for (normal) flu progression.

Copying Google AI's response here as it's at least as good as what I was going to recall:

> Fever is a key part of the innate immune system, acting as a protective response to infection by raising the body's temperature. This increase in temperature inhibits the growth of many pathogens, enhances the activity of immune cells like leukocytes, and improves the effectiveness of the adaptive immune response.

My Vietnamese in-laws commonly make a sweat tent to shorten the duration of sickness. I can't say if it works, but it's something I intend to try next time I'm sick.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#102

Post by adrian_b »

beAbU wrote: post #100
binary132 wrote: post #50

Huh. I don’t know if I’m picking up what they’re putting down here, but it kind of sounds like suppressing fever e.g. with Tylenol would actually be bad for (normal) flu progression.

It's a fairly common notion to "sweat out" a flu. Stay in bed, wrap yourself up in lots of blankets and just sweat the damn thing out. High body heat kills the virus. So it would make sense that drugs like tylenol/paracetamol would make you feel better, but would keep the flu alive in you for longer.

Anecdotally, I have used this technique many times, also drinking hot tea besides being wrapped in blankets, and at least for me it has worked much better than when taking any kind of antipyretics.

There are cases when the fever is dangerously high and antipyretics are necessary. But when the fever is supportable it certainly accelerates the healing.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#103

Post by jibal »

querez wrote: post #96
dboreham wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fever isn't just a symptom. It's a defense mechanism. The idea is that use of antipyretic drugs may make the infection worse.

The sentence is constructed, weirdly, but it's meant to say that fever is "killing off unknown foreign bodies"

Pain being a way to let you know that something is damaged is close to true--close enough not to quibble with. But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#104

Post by qcnguy »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #37

I'd imagine that in the event of a Bird Flu pandemic, a vaccine would be developed and dispatched quite quickly, unlike with COVID, where during the early days experts were saying it was possible we'd never get a vaccine.

The reason they said it wasn't possible wasn't that making a vaccine was physically impossible. They said a vaccine might never arrive because vaccines have such a poor track record against respiratory viruses. The assumption the (cough) experts were making was that nobody would roll out a useless vaccine.

But they would! The COVID vaccine was advertised as 95% effective after two shots and done, and within months it was at negative effectiveness and people were being told to take infinity boosters. That's the exact scenario originally anticipated. The only mistake was assuming the regulators wouldn't sign off on a useless vaccine backed by dodgy trials. We were told to take our medicine anyway and then the vaccine boosters tried to gaslight everyone into thinking it was a great success even as millions of people saw friends and family who'd taken five shots come down with Omicron for the third time in six months.

It doesn't work because respiratory viruses mutate very quickly. They evolve around both natural immunity and vaccines very fast, but vaccination triggers population lock so the effect is worse than just letting people fight it off naturally where you get more natural variability in defenses.

That's why if you look carefully at the data for flu shots they don't work. They're reported as effective because the original specific virus goes away, but people still get flu and die at the same rate because "flu" is more than just one very specific virus. End effect on mortality is zero.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#105

Post by TeMPOraL »

jeroenhd wrote: post #80
binary132 wrote: post #50

Huh. I don’t know if I’m picking up what they’re putting down here, but it kind of sounds like suppressing fever e.g. with Tylenol would actually be bad for (normal) flu progression.

Fever helps against all kinds of illnesses but it can also be deadly, so having fever reducting medicine around is a smart precaution IMO. If you're otherwise healthy and are dealing with a mild seasonal infection and have got something important going on, I can see why people would choose to reduce symptoms at the cost of taking longer to recover. Lots of people go overboard with this, though, like taking flu reduct…

> Lots of people go overboard with this, though, like taking flu reduction medicine with every single cold or using medication to go to work sick. American media seems especially accepting of people taking "flu medicine" over rest and recovery.

This is not specific to America; it's a thing in the entire Western world, and probably beyond. Because it's not like we have any other choice.

There is no slack in the system. Most people can't afford to have more than a few sick days in a year, and they prefer to save those up for when painkillers and cough medicine don't cut it anymore. Same with children, because a sick child staying home is usually equivalent to the parent taking a sick day themselves - either way, they're not at work.

We can talk about media or people going overboard once it becomes acceptable to skip work for a week because of sick kid, or in order to not get everyone in the office sick too.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#106

Post by dosbod »

I wonder if Tryptase affects Avian flu as well. Anyone know?

I'd also argue my partner and I got Avian flu one Xmas from eating free range eggs when there was an Avian flu pandemic up the road from them in Norfolk and the British Govt ordered culls.

Tryptase:

"A striking finding was decreased tryptase content in mast cells with copper overload, whereas copper starvation increased tryptase content." [1]

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5728160/

"Influenza A viruses are negative-stranded RNA viruses. Like many other enveloped viruses, they code for a surface glycoprotein that must be cleaved by cellular proteases for activation. HA, a major influenza surface glycoprotein, is translated as a single protein, HA0. For viral activation, HA0 (assembled as trimers) must be cleaved by a trypsin-like serine endoprotease at a specific site, normally coded for by a single basic amino acid (usually arginine) between the HA1 and HA2 domains of the protein. After cleavage, the two disulfide-bonded protein domains produce the mature form of the protein subunits as a prerequisite for the conformational change necessary for fusion and hence viral infectivity" [2]

[2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC33880/

I also wonder, by virtue of being a single strand of RNA, how long does it take for mutations to make the virus no longer viable in the environment it resides in?

In other words is a this a 3-4day process of replication and mutation which in effect kills itself off, rendering the need for immune system response and cough, cold, flu rememdies nothing more than containment effects?

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#107

Post by 0dayz »

qcnguy wrote: post #104
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #37

I'd imagine that in the event of a Bird Flu pandemic, a vaccine would be developed and dispatched quite quickly, unlike with COVID, where during the early days experts were saying it was possible we'd never get a vaccine.

The reason they said it wasn't possible wasn't that making a vaccine was physically impossible. They said a vaccine might never arrive because vaccines have such a poor track record against respiratory viruses. The assumption the (cough) experts were making was that nobody would roll out a useless vaccine. But they would! The COVID vaccine was advertised as 95% effective after two shots and done, and within months it…

Any source on these claims?

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#108

Post by alentred »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #37

I'd imagine that in the event of a Bird Flu pandemic, a vaccine would be developed and dispatched quite quickly, unlike with COVID, where during the early days experts were saying it was possible we'd never get a vaccine.

If COVID demonstrated anything it is exactly the contrary, that we should not count on readily available vaccines, and rather should have *systemic* responses ready to be implemented when needed (including vaccine development, but not only). Every new virus is a new challenge and a vaccine may take time to develop. Meanwhile isolation protocols, masks etc. are all sensible actions. Prevention and prior investments into a wide range of measures, from education, to health protocols development and to vaccine technology research are all necessary to have these systemic responses ready in place.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#109

Post by dabber21 »

01100011 wrote: post #101
binary132 wrote: post #50

Huh. I don’t know if I’m picking up what they’re putting down here, but it kind of sounds like suppressing fever e.g. with Tylenol would actually be bad for (normal) flu progression.

Copying Google AI's response here as it's at least as good as what I was going to recall: > Fever is a key part of the innate immune system, acting as a protective response to infection by raising the body's temperature. This increase in temperature inhibits the growth of many pathogens, enhances the activity of immune cells like leukocytes, and improves the effectiveness of the adaptive immune response. My Vietnames…

When I feel like I have a virus I usually put on my hoody which I only wear when I feel ill and a scarf and before going to bed I drink a lot of herb or ginger tea (like two cans)

this is will heat up your body and you get some night sweats, this usually helps reducing the sick time.

I can't say if it actually helps, but its become a ritual for that occasion

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#110

Post by srean »

ehnto wrote: post #85
tayo42 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like taking flu reduction medicine with every single cold or using medication to go to work sick. Basically how I grew up. I took painkillers and throat lozenges in my backpack to school.

Due to a condition I was born with, I was raised the opposite. No over the counter medication my entire life, with some exceptions. I usually decline pain management in ER, for things like broken bones, but for surgeries and stuff of course I have no choice as I go under. I will take what the doctor orders though, to treat illness and conditions though thankfully at this stage there hasn't been many instances. Usuall…

Broken bones? A broken femur or a shin is hell.
Post reply on HN