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Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

reuters.com

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Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#101

Post by Havoc »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #6

I would encourage people to go look at satellite view of random "rich" neighbourhoods in Pakistan, and note how many solar panels there are on rooftops. Here is the first one I scrolled to in Lahore [1], and one in Karachi [2] Pakistan's grid prices tripled or more since the start of the Russia-Ukraine war, because the extremely mismanaged and poorly designed electricity system+economy could not handle the energy pri…

Did whoever named those streets have a stroke?

20, 23, 25, 27, 28, MDR 7, 32, 33, no name at all, 39, 40

And they're not even unique...they recycle them a kilometer further. WAT

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#102

Post by SackSolStr »

testing22321 wrote: post #84
SackSolStr wrote: post #80

The payback periods get me confused. A relative set up solar a year ago in one of the sunniest places in Europe, the Canaries, cost €7,000 for 6KW. He just ran the math on it and found out that the payback period is 15 years. The only way to make it profitable is government subsidies. How can it be profitable to install solar in continental Europe where taxes and labor costs are much higher while having much less sun…

Those numbers sound wrong. I have 7.8kw in Canada, and if I paid out of pocket payback would be 6-7 years. We pat $0.13 per kWh from the grid, get a one for one credit on anything we feed in. System makes 7.8Mwh in a year. What are your friends numbers? Grid price is also pre-approved to increase not less that 5% a year forever, so it will only go in my favour.

In spain he pays more than that on average, and only gets €0.04 for sold KWH. If it was one-to-one credit offset, as you have in Canada, it would certainly be very profitable.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#103

Post by SackSolStr »

testing22321 wrote: post #88
kragen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out. If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got…

> You seem to have created this account just to troll I find it fascinating that someone is willing to pay for accounts to swing opinions or seed FUD on a topics like solar panels. It’s happening here, it’s clearly happening everywhere on every topic.

Or someone who lurks here, but never posts. Not everybody has an account here. I was just curious because I was talking my friend who has the solar just earlier today and he was a bit upset when he ran the numbers.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#104

Post by scheeseman486 »

UltraSane wrote: post #60
peppersghost93 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can be depending on your needs. Lithium iron phosphate batteries are pretty cheap for their capacity. If you build your own power station with them you'd be surprised how far your money goes.

It is much more expensive that just buying electricity from the grid at night.

In Australia, if you have the space for rooftop solar, it's far cheaper in the long run to buy solar+battery. We did the math for our household and even if grid prices are stable (which they aren't, they're fast increasing) we're still going to make money back on the investment in less than 4 years.

Granted this includes a government rebate for the battery, but overall the prices have plummeted. Any government that isn't pushing for renewables and energy storage at this point is actively working against it's citizens.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#105

Post by magicalhippo »

kragen wrote: post #83
SackSolStr wrote: post #80

The payback periods get me confused. A relative set up solar a year ago in one of the sunniest places in Europe, the Canaries, cost €7,000 for 6KW. He just ran the math on it and found out that the payback period is 15 years. The only way to make it profitable is government subsidies. How can it be profitable to install solar in continental Europe where taxes and labor costs are much higher while having much less sun…

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out. If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got…

> the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price

Where do I get 450W panels for $12 each?

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#106

Post by kragen »

testing22321 wrote: post #88
kragen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out. If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got…

> You seem to have created this account just to troll I find it fascinating that someone is willing to pay for accounts to swing opinions or seed FUD on a topics like solar panels. It’s happening here, it’s clearly happening everywhere on every topic.

(Accusation removed from parent.)

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#107

Post by kragen »

SackSolStr wrote: post #99
kragen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out. If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got…

sorry yes. He told me, installation is 6,000 W and is about 91% efficient at peak. 12 460W panels. panels point in optimal direction. In spain he sells excess to grid at €0.04 per KHW. Lowest cost of importing is €0.085 for KHW at night, about €0.22 at peak hours. He ran the numbers on power not bought (self consumption) + power sold, over a year. He said it comes to about €500 for the year. He added this really surp…

That's a 7% yearly ROI, which is a pretty decent number, better than you'd do on average in the stock market and more predictable. If he had a little storage so he didn't have to sell any, it would improve further. But also 6000W of panels in the low-cost category now costs €300: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#108

Post by kragen »

magicalhippo wrote: post #105
kragen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment appears to be unrelated to Pakistan and, due to the confusion of units, has been reduced to nonsense. Moreover, your implied calculations don't work out. If we assume that you meant €7000 for 6 kilowatts peak (not 6 kelvin wurtzite henries or 6 kilowatt hours, neither of which is sensible) the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price for their solar panels and therefore got…

> the probable answer is that your relative paid 25× the current market price Where do I get 450W panels for $12 each?

pvXchange, but they're €23 because you fucked up the math: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

€12 would be 44× cheaper (7000/6000/(12/450) ≈ 44). Maybe in a couple of years.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#109

Post by cheema33 »

triceratops wrote: post #78
pfdietz wrote: post #3

What this shows is solar is increasingly threatening the electric utility business model. Even without net metering, demand destruction will cause the traditional model to stop working.

In most places in the developed world utility-scale solar is much cheaper to build than rooftop solar. And there's value in having a stable grid to fall back on. I think the demand destruction story is overrated.

Utility-scale solar needs land and has to deal with line losses. Rooftop solar does not have to deal with either.

Re: Pakistan says rooftop solar output to exceed grid demand in some hubs next year

#110

Post by SackSolStr »

kragen wrote: post #107
SackSolStr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry yes. He told me, installation is 6,000 W and is about 91% efficient at peak. 12 460W panels. panels point in optimal direction. In spain he sells excess to grid at €0.04 per KHW. Lowest cost of importing is €0.085 for KHW at night, about €0.22 at peak hours. He ran the numbers on power not bought (self consumption) + power sold, over a year. He said it comes to about €500 for the year. He added this really surp…

That's a 7% yearly ROI, which is a pretty decent number, better than you'd do on average in the stock market and more predictable. If he had a little storage so he didn't have to sell any, it would improve further. But also 6000W of panels in the low-cost category now costs €300: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

You need more information to calculate the ROI. I gave you the peak efficiency, Which comes from clean panels and no clouds. The average efficiency is closer to 70%. While the canaries are pretty sunny, the panels get dirty very quickly (fine dust from Sahara), Actually, if you count cleaning costs, the ROI goes down even more. And also consumptions is at its peak in the evening when there is no sun. He was thinking about getting storage, A Tesla Powerwall 3 installed is about €11,000, No way that is worth it. My impression is that places where ROI is much better is also places where you get more than €0.04 per KWH.
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