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New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

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Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#101

Post by squigz »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #85
yetihehe wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not right and it's making HN a worse place. I think so too, but It's not a strong opinion from me. Some things are offtopic. The problem is that there are no other good discussion places to discuss this. Maybe it's because such topics attract a lot of people with strong opinions who don't engage in good-faith discussion (I'm not talking about you or that one guy). > One guy (234000 karma) doesn't. I think o…

One or two people flagging is enough. If I'm mistaken, the mods can clarify how many flags does it take to bury a post, and if there are people with special flagging rights or if karma plays a role in flagging.

Flagging has a small karma requirement (with no mention of more weighting for more karma)

Accounts that inappropriately flag too many posts have their flagging privileges revoked

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12173836

I believe you can also email the mods to get a post unflagged if you think it's valid.

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#102

Post by em-bee »

xenospn wrote: post #75
glimshe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"which of course I had to stop". I want to go back to a world where I can be affectionate toward children without an implication of something more sinister.

Most of the world outside of North America is still this way.

except new zealand where men can't even be hired as teachers because parents don't trust them. at least that is what i was told by a friend who ran a school there.

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#103

Post by Yoric »

vacuity wrote: post #89
kakacik wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some risk of more severe harm vs guaranteed harm on all male population. I'd take the chances

Abusers are not evenly distributed over all men, so the target group is not "men" but "men who we knew were probably sketchy anyways, and some we unfortunately didn't know about".

Do you have data on that?

All the abusers I've heard of by name were in the category of "some we unfortunately didn't know about" (with the exception of the Epstein clique, I imagine, which were more in the category of "some we collectively didn't want to know about").

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#104

Post by OKRainbowKid »

CalRobert wrote: post #66
oulipo2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely untrue. Feminism has NEVER been against men. Only people who half-ass reading about feminism, and rely too much on stupid far-right videos on TikTok believe that

Ummm… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto seems pretty overtly against men. (It’s literally the society for cutting up men)

And that's representative of feminism as a whole how exactly?

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#105

Post by vacuity »

Yoric wrote: post #103
vacuity wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abusers are not evenly distributed over all men, so the target group is not "men" but "men who we knew were probably sketchy anyways, and some we unfortunately didn't know about".

Do you have data on that? All the abusers I've heard of by name were in the category of "some we unfortunately didn't know about" (with the exception of the Epstein clique, I imagine, which were more in the category of "some we collectively didn't want to know about").

No data, and I imagine there isn't much to say either way, since collecting the data is difficult at best.

I think part of the discrepancy is that you're talking about abusers you've "heard of by name". The other is that people like Weinstein and Epstein clearly have power, and by default the powerful are left to their own devices (of course their victims and many others around are aware, but don't speak up). I think that, knowing that, one can calibrate a more accurate predictor. I think, if one hangs around a crowd long enough, one can typically gauge who's who in that crowd.

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#106

Post by piva00 »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #81
piva00 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there might be some of that happening on YouTube, James from Speeed[0] (who used to be in Donut Media before) has been mixing the usual car-related content with wholesome masculinity stuff, and I feel that should be the future of making masculinity be seen less as "being tough" to being a resilient, dependable, empathetic person. I don't think his channel is the only one, it's the only one I'm exposed to so k…

What's are the differences supposed to be,between male and female? Genuine question

Inherently? I'd say almost none except for the obvious physical ones and their higher order effects.

Culturally there's a lot of differences that won't be patched for generations, social expectations can come from parenting and/or environment, including their society, interactions between genders shaped by those cultural differences from an early age, so on and so forth. Such expectations shape their worldview and place in it, males being told to be tough, not be "a sissy", being shaped into clamming up emotionally. Females being told they can't achieve things solely due to their gender, having to learn to be guarded against potential male aggression, etc.

There's just too much to even start enumerating in a comment but it boils down to cultural expectations from early age, and how those shape people into gendered behaviours as a reaction, not only from the expectations but also the feedbacks happening across gendered higher order effects of those expectations.

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#107

Post by D13Fd »

glimshe wrote: post #34
benterix wrote: post #30

I used to work for a short time as an IT teacher. The kids there were wonderful, even the troublemakers weren't that bad. What struck me is that clearly for some of the boys I seemed to be the only male figure they could related to in their lives: direct, available, happy to just be there and listen, sharing a common passion. They would come to me very often to talk about anything, not just computers. The younger one…

"which of course I had to stop". I want to go back to a world where I can be affectionate toward children without an implication of something more sinister.

It’s true though, it’s very risky for men in America to have any kind of interactions with other people’s children.

I’m a father of six. One of my oldest kids’ friends wrote me a great little letter out of the blue. I wrote her a short, heartfelt, and funny (IMO) reply, but after I talked with my wife, we decided I really just could not send it. There are too many risks. She thought the only safe thing to do would be to ignore the girl’s letter. And she’s right. That’s what I ended up doing. But it still makes me sad that that’s where society is these days.

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#108

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

piva00 wrote: post #106
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's are the differences supposed to be,between male and female? Genuine question

Inherently? I'd say almost none except for the obvious physical ones and their higher order effects. Culturally there's a lot of differences that won't be patched for generations, social expectations can come from parenting and/or environment, including their society, interactions between genders shaped by those cultural differences from an early age, so on and so forth. Such expectations shape their worldview and pl…

Well but the physical difference must account for some natural social differences, my naive thinking is: other animals do act like that.

A simple example is that I can lift my wife's body but she cannot lift mine. Wouldn't that affect our social behavior in some form? My thinking is going to how other animals have different behavior based on sex

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#109

Post by cal_dent »

em-bee wrote: post #102
xenospn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the world outside of North America is still this way.

except new zealand where men can't even be hired as teachers because parents don't trust them. at least that is what i was told by a friend who ran a school there.

think you've been led down a garden path there...this is not true, based on my equally anecdotal takes from family who are teachers there. There is a problem about lack of male teachers in NZ but that is more as a result of men not wanting to be teachers rather than parents not wanting it. Most schools are desperate to get more teachers and the govt as also tried schemes to get more men to teach.

Re: New research highlights a shortage of male mentors for boys and young men

#110

Post by em-bee »

cal_dent wrote: post #109
em-bee wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except new zealand where men can't even be hired as teachers because parents don't trust them. at least that is what i was told by a friend who ran a school there.

think you've been led down a garden path there...this is not true, based on my equally anecdotal takes from family who are teachers there. There is a problem about lack of male teachers in NZ but that is more as a result of men not wanting to be teachers rather than parents not wanting it. Most schools are desperate to get more teachers and the govt as also tried schemes to get more men to teach.

my story is 20 years old. it's possible things are changing. that would be good. it is of course also possible that this was a unique experience of this one school director. but i believe he would have checked with other schools before coming to that conclusion. the key point however is that this sentiment about not letting teachers, especially male teachers be close to students is not just limited to the US but can be found elsewhere.
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