Live data from Hacker News

WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

github.com

101–110 of 188 posts

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#101

Does this even work? podman run mcr.microsoft.com/windows:ltsc2019 Trying to pull mcr.microsoft.com/windows:ltsc2019... Error: choosing an image from manifest list docker://mcr.microsoft.com/windows:ltsc2019: no image found in manifest list for architecture amd64, variant "", OS linux

This runs a container then virtualizes Windows inside it using KVM

As you can see - running the container doesn't work.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#102
post #70
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of terms in contract law, like fairness of obligations, unconscionability, disproportionate penalty, excessive advantage, etc. that the US seems to have forgotten. In the EU and other countries such... aberrations are struck down and unenforceable. People are still scared silly, but the ones that protest are usually left alone.

Those aspects of contract law mean that if MS included "you owe us your first born child" or "if you have not uninstalled this operating system within 2 weeks of installation, you owe Microsoft an additional one million dollars" then that clause wouldn't be valid. They don't however mean that MS choosing to put adverts all over Windows is illegal, or a breach of the contract, just because users would prefer the OS be…

Many countries have laws against "hidden defects".

One could argue that adding ads after some time from a system putchased without ads throuh updates is a defect that has been hidden at purchase time.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And unfortunately it has become the norm in open-source to push out shiny-looking projects with pretty logos and UX but shoddy underlying technology and deceptive/overstated claims (looking at you Tauri). Thing thing uses RDP for communication which was designed for remotely administering servers over low speed networks. VirtualBox in contrast integrates at the driver level, and allows you to share the underlying GPU…

Windows implementation of RDP is actually very good. You get a degree of responsiveness that is unachievable with neither Linux RDP implementation or any other product (maybe barring Parsec, that also doesn’t allow for Linux hosts). I know that RDP doesn’t work for gaming, but for anything else (even for CAD), it’s the best thing barring direct access to the machine (or, Parsec).

Yeah, but if the Windows app essentially draws into a GPU texture (which is mapped to a dmabuf buffer in the Linux kernel), you can just grab that texture and send it to the compositor.

The overhead difference is like memcpy vs a very fast SQL database.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#104
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then it would be illegal to use hyper-v, since windows is then run under a hypervisor.

The FPP license does allow local vm access. But if u access it remotely then u need a SA or VDA license. If this thread is legit: https://community.spiceworks.com/t/whats-wrong-or-not-legal-...

In that case you are using a network protocol but one could argue you are still accessing the VM in the same local system the OS has been licensed for. It is a remote access from a software perspective but a local access from a user perspective.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#105
post #26

How good is it in practice? I've found windows VMs under a Linux host to be frustrating to use, and get poor performances no matter how much resources I throw at it. The clock keeps getting messed up all the time. UI is sluggish. I now use a dedicated windows laptop in RDP and it is such a better experience better than a VM.

> UI is sluggish You absolutely need to pass through a GPU so that DWM.exe is properly accelerated; otherwise, it falls back to the software-accelerated WARP and the performance tanks to ~15 FPS. It doesn't need to be anything powerful; if you have an idle integrated card that you aren't using on the Linux host because you only interact with it through a Web server or SSH (for instance, Proxmox), then pass that throu…

To pass through a GPU - you'd need an extra GPU then..?

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#106

Lol, at that point I would just run Windows... What is the threshold where you are basically running Windows, and you have Linux installed just for some internet vanity? Play games? Run Windows games with Wine/Proton Coding? VSCode App? This thing... But at least I don't own Windows, sheej!

I don't think it's about internet vanity, more about not constantly having advertisements or weird services / AI features pushed into your desktop environment.

I'd love to just run windows if there was a version that didn't have this.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#107
post #32

I see it's time for the bimonthly reinvention of VirtualBox and VMWare's seamless modes from a few faceless techies on GitHub and designed for people who can't be bothered to use WINE or VirtualBox.

As someone who is looking to go Linux, do most windows apps work now through Wine or VirtualBox ? I know Valve did a lot of work for games. It’s been 4 years since I even took a good look at it.

Bar a few exceptions (gaminh mostly) you'd have a much better experience switching to native linux apps. Most are really good once you get past the resistance to change. It takes a bit of time to get used to some but once you are set you are no less productive.

I did the switch 2 decades ago and except for my annual 3 weeks of gaming, I never use wine nor do I use or feel the need for a win VM.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#108
If this works as expect, I love it. I'm assuming the user doesn't need to manually configure the containers etc; it sounds like from the Readme it's low-friction. From a performance and disk space perspective, I'm not thrilled about containers. I think their existence here and in general cuts to a deeper concern we can fix.

Here's what I'd like to see for GPOS software in general. (Win, Linux, Mac, any new ones we get) Minimal or no ABI barriers. You compile software for a given CPU architecture, and it just works on all suitable operating systems. No barriers; no friction. There are some OS specific things people use like file systems, threads, and allocators, but these are usually somewhat general, and are abstracted over by the programming language's standard libraries.

This is a worthwhile goal, and technically is feasible. Within Windows, this generally works pretty well; I think a reasonable goal is to get this working within Linux as a whole. Then cross Win/Linux, and maybe even Mac. OSs should be making our lives easier; not putting up barriers. Especially with the Linux free/OSS mindset. I wish UX and Compatibility were part of the ethos too; I think it's relevant.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#109
post #76
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is looking to go Linux, do most windows apps work now through Wine or VirtualBox ? I know Valve did a lot of work for games. It’s been 4 years since I even took a good look at it.

Office doesn’t.

Office is easy to get rid of on a personal level through alternatives.

On a professional level the online office 365 web apps are enough for 99% users. My comoany do not even bother giving us licenses for the desktop apps so linux and windows users are on equal term really.

Re: WinApps: Run Windows apps as if they were a part of the native Linux OS

#110
post #18
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is incidentally how Windows 386-9x ran DOS applications - in a VM, using V86 mode. Oh that is cool! Somehow I imagined that virtualization is more of a "modern" concept, but clearly that is naive thinking.

History edit A form of virtualization was first demonstrated with IBM's CP-40 research system in 1967, then distributed via open source in CP/CMS in 1967–1972, and re-implemented in IBM's VM family from 1972 to the present. Each CP/CMS user was provided a simulated, stand-alone computer. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization Sometimes it feels like we don't have any actual innovation in CS anymore and…

Nit: Do you mean "revisionist history"? ;)

VAX/VMS was originally virtualization of the PDP-11. Windows NT benefited from the loss of MICA/PRISM to virtualize/isolate what was once messy, unreliable, single-tasking, cooperative Windows 3.1/9x to be more isolated, reliable, concurrent, and parallel processing where the fundamental unit of isolated granular execution was the process like UNIX.

DOS mode "VM"s run within Windows 3.x/9x/NT aren't really isolated VMs because they can't replace the DPMI server or launch another instance of (386enh mode) Windows. All they do is semi-isolate real mode and DPMI client apps somewhat to allow multiple instances of them. They can still do bad things™ and don't have full control of the "system" in the way a real system, emulator, or hardware-assisted type-1 or type-2 hypervisor does. They're "virtual" in the way DesqView was "virtual".

Consumerized enterprise virtualization happened in the PC world with VMware Workstation->GSX->Server->ESX->ESXi/vCenter in relatively quick succession around 2001-2005. Xen popped up about the time of ESX (pre-ESXi).

IBM keeps quietly churning out z-based mainframe processors like the z17. Software from the 60's and 70's still runs because they don't do the incompatibility churn that's slowly being more and more adopted in the past 15 years to break everything, all the time, so that nothing "old" that had a long-lasting standard or compatibility ABI that was working will work now. I'm sure it's a lot of work, but churn is also work and especially when it breaks N users. Also, I don't think many folks from the PC-based enterprise server world appreciate the reliability, availability, and service features mainframes have/had.. although vMotion (moving VMs between physical machine linked to shared storage) when it came out was pretty cool.

Post reply on HN