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AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

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Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#101

Post by pjc50 »

xtracto wrote: post #98

This won't be a popular opinion here but, this resistance and skepticism of AI code, and people making it less smells to me very similar to the stance I see from some developers that have this belief that people from other countries CANNOT be as good as them (like, saying that outsourcing or hiring people from developing countries will invariably bring low[er] quality code). Feels a.but like snobbism and projection o…

Except it's the other way round: the poor quality is evident up front, and "they used AI" is an inference for why the quality is poor.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#102

Post by tverbeure »

genewitch wrote: post #72
inejge wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how long the open-source ecosystem will be able to resist this wave. This PR was very successfully resisted: closed and locked without much reviewing. And with a lot of tolerance and patience from the developers, much more than I believe to be fruitful: the "author" is remarkably resistant to argument. So, I think that others can resist in the same way.

Has there been any posts where the AI-user goes "oh, that makes sense. Sorry. Carry on."?

Yes.

https://github.com/povik/yosys-slang/pull/237#issuecomment-3...

I was super excited about this PR and disappointed when it turned out to be AI generated.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#103

Post by thisisit »

pluc wrote: post #68

To all the AI apologists here I'd like to submit a simple scenario to you and hear your answer: you use AI to create a keynote speech on a topic you needed to use AI to write. At the end of your speech, people ask you questions about the contents of your speech. What do you say? This is the same.

"I lack funding to answer. Pay me and I'll ask AI to answer your question."

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#104

Post by Cthulhu_ »

anilgulecha wrote: post #36

For the longest time, Linus's dictum "Talk is cheap. Show me the code" held. Now that's fallen! New rules for the new world are needed..

I don't think it's fallen, but if the code is 13K LOC and written without any prior planning, nobody will read it.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#105

Post by Cthulhu_ »

armchairhacker wrote: post #40

OP’s code (at least plausibly) helped him. From https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/14369#issuecomment-35568... > Damn, I can’t debug OCaml on my Mac because there’s no DWARF info…But, hey, there’s AI and it seems to one-shot fairly complex stuff in different languages, from just a Github issue…My needs are finally taken care of! So I do believe using an LLM to generate a big feature like OP did can be very useful, s…

> Even badly-written code is still useful when it works.

Sure, just as long as it's not used in production or to handle customer or other sensitive data. But for tools, utilities, weekend hack projects, coding challenges, etc by all means.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#106

Post by bilekas »

> It’s not where I obtained this PR but how.

The fact that this was said as what seems to be a boast or a brag is concerning. As if by the magic of my words the solution appeared on paper. Instead of noticing that the bulk of the code submitted was taken from someone else.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#107

Post by bilekas »

pluc wrote: post #68

To all the AI apologists here I'd like to submit a simple scenario to you and hear your answer: you use AI to create a keynote speech on a topic you needed to use AI to write. At the end of your speech, people ask you questions about the contents of your speech. What do you say? This is the same.

"The AI has a complete understanding of your question, prove me wrong"

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#108

Post by armchairhacker »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #105
armchairhacker wrote: post #40

OP’s code (at least plausibly) helped him. From https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/14369#issuecomment-35568... > Damn, I can’t debug OCaml on my Mac because there’s no DWARF info…But, hey, there’s AI and it seems to one-shot fairly complex stuff in different languages, from just a Github issue…My needs are finally taken care of! So I do believe using an LLM to generate a big feature like OP did can be very useful, s…

> Even badly-written code is still useful when it works. Sure, just as long as it's not used in production or to handle customer or other sensitive data. But for tools, utilities, weekend hack projects, coding challenges, etc by all means.

Exactly.

And yeah, people will start using AI for important things it’s not capable of…people have already started and will continue to do so regardless. We should find good ways for people to make their lives easier with AI, because people will always try to make their lives easier, so otherwise they’ll find bad ways themselves.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#109

Post by squigz »

torben-friis wrote: post #94
benterix wrote: post #62

Did these Ocaml maintainers undergo some special course for dealing with difficult people? They show enormous amounts of maturity and patience. I'd just give the offender Torvalds' treatment and block them from the repo, case closed.

I honestly reread the whole thread in awe. Not due to the submitter, as clickbaity as it was, but reading the maintainers and comparing their replies with what I would have written in their place. That was a masterclass of defending your arguments rationally, with empathy, and leaving negative emotions at the door. I wish I was able to communicate like this. My only doubt is whether this has a good or bad effect over…

I don't think 'hostility' is called for, but certainly a little bit more... bluntness.

But indeed, huge props to the maintainers for staying so cool.

Re: AI has a deep understanding of how this code works

#110

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

> Looking over this PR, the vast majority of the code is a DWARF library by itself. This should really not live in the compiler, nor should it become a maintenance burden for the core devs.

I think this is a good point, that publishing a library (when possible, not sure if it's possible in this case) or module both reduces/removes the maintenance burden and makes it feel like more of an opt-in.

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