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PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

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Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#101

Post by zonghao »

tensor wrote: post #32

Even the very people driving the AI rush are implicitly showing that they are skeptical: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy7vrd8k4eo Personally, I think everyone has realized there is a huge bubble, especially the C-levels who've sunk huge amounts of money into it, and now they are all quietly panicking and trying to find ways to mitigate the damage when it finally busts. Some are probably sticking their head in t…

This may already be a bubble in social or financial terms, but at least for me personally, my capabilities have been greatly expanded (especially when it comes to coding and accessing information).

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#102

Post by hyghjiyhu »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #79
intalentive wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As the model get's more powerful, you can't simply train the model on your narrative if it doesn't align with real data/world. That’s what “AI alignment” is. Doesn’t seem to be hurting Western models.

Western models can be lead off the reservation pretty easily, at least at this point. I’ve gotten some pretty gnarly un-PC “opinions” out of ChatGPT. So if people are influenced by that kind of stuff, it does seem to be hurting in the way the PRC is worried about.

It doesn't really matter what you can trick it into saying. As long as it promotes the right ideology most of the time it's good enough.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#103

Post by nephihaha »

They are still run by Marxists so believe in a very rigid view of the world which they can't think outside of. Some of them only go along with Marxism for the sake of their careers but it is a very pervasive way of thinking.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#104

Post by kelipso »

GoatInGrey wrote: post #67
graemep wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is China communist? There has been a huge amount of privatisation. There are literally hundreds of billionaires. The state still owns some critical things, but is that enough to make it communist? Its not everything and you can have state ownership and still have a ruling class that has control of the means of production which it uses to its own advantage.

The PRC asserts that they follow a modified Marxism-Leninism. Though the ideology is full of hypocrisies and plain old nonsense. For instance, they refer to themselves as a "people's democratic dictatorship" that is "led by the working class". This irrationality extends into their stated foreign policy approach of "peaceful rise" & respecting sovereignty, a "socialist market economy" in which independent labor unions…

> a "people's democratic dictatorship" that is "led by the working class"

… You never heard of the dictatorship of the proletariat?

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#105

Post by throwaway31131 »

impossiblefork wrote: post #55
kennyloginz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, Xi looks down on western “Welfarism”, he believes it makes the population lazy.

As a westerner who has at least to some degree been influenced by socialism ideologically, but who perhaps isn't a communist (I don't know what my ideology really is-- and who does), I don't necessarily dislike welfare, but I don't want to build society on it. Instead I want some element of an actual 'to each according to his contribution'-type thing with an exception so that we treat disabled people and others who c…

I think that’s what everybody wants. The problem is the statement 'to each according to his contribution' is subjective. Weighing “contribution” in a way everyone agrees on just hasn’t materialized. It’s probably going to get harder too as technology improves and changes more and more rapidly.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#106

Post by lenkite »

andy_xor_andrew wrote: post #18

> former Dean of Electronics Engineering and Computer Science at Peking University, has noted that Chinese data makes up only 1.3 percent of global large-model datasets (The Paper, March 24). Reflecting these concerns, the Ministry of State Security (MSS) has issued a stark warning that “poisoned data” (数据投毒) could “mislead public opinion” (误导社会舆论) (Sina Finance, August 5). from a technical point of view, I suppose i…

PRC just needs to sponsor a "Voice of China" and pay ¥¥¥/$$$/€€€/₹₹₹ to "journalists" and seed the web with millions of "China is Great" articles. Make sure to have 10k "contributors" on Wikipedia too. (I think they already do this).

Also use the NPM registry - put CCP slogans in the terminal! They will come in billions of ingestible build logs.

Problem will be easily solved.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#107

Post by GabrielTFS »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #95
MengerSponge wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French Republic has always existed in the nuclear age? The French Republic has always been founded by De Gaulle?

> The French Republic has always existed in the nuclear age? There were two different French republics since 1945 with their own different consitutions (one with a parliamentary system and one semi-presidential). I'm not sure the quip you are responding to make sense but it's always interesting to remind people that since the USA were founded, France went through three different monarchic systems, two empires, two pe…

Very minor nitpick but I'd have said France went through four different monarchic systems in that time frame (1776-1790 Ancient Régime, 1791-1792 Constitutional monarchy, 1814-1830 Bourbon Restoration and 1830-1848 July Monarchy)

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#108

Post by immibis »

skissane wrote: post #74
XenophileJKO wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about this yesterday. My personal opinion is that the PRC will face a self created headwind that likely, structurally, will prevent them from leading in AI. As the model get's more powerful, you can't simply train the model on your narrative if it doesn't align with real data/world. At some capacity, the model will notice and then it becomes a can of worms. This means they need to train the model to be…

> As the model get's more powerful, you can't simply train the model on your narrative if it doesn't align with real data/world. > At some capacity, the model will notice and then it becomes a can of worms. I think this is conflating “is” and “ought”, fact and value. People convince themselves that their own value system is somehow directly entailed by raw facts, such that mastery of the facts entail acceptance of th…

"Reality has a liberal bias" referred to "liberal" as the opposite of "conservative" which is identical to "right wing" - reality has an anti-right-wing bias.

Actual political factions are more nuanced than that, but you have to dumb it down for a wide audience.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#109

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

GabrielTFS wrote: post #107
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The French Republic has always existed in the nuclear age? There were two different French republics since 1945 with their own different consitutions (one with a parliamentary system and one semi-presidential). I'm not sure the quip you are responding to make sense but it's always interesting to remind people that since the USA were founded, France went through three different monarchic systems, two empires, two pe…

Very minor nitpick but I'd have said France went through four different monarchic systems in that time frame (1776-1790 Ancient Régime, 1791-1792 Constitutional monarchy, 1814-1830 Bourbon Restoration and 1830-1848 July Monarchy)

I was lumping the brief period of constitutional monarchy with the convention in one of the exceptional rules, the other being another lumping of Vichy and everything that followed until the fourth while I folded the Consulate into the first empire but yes, you are entirely right, I’m oversimplifying.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#110

Post by energy123 »

cassianoleal wrote: post #99
energy123 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aligning subjective values (which sit off the false vs truth spectrum) is quite different to aligning it towards incorrect facts.

How can a model judge what's correct vs. incorrect? Or do you just mean the narratives that are more common in the data set?

I mean forcing the model to repeat things that we as humans know are factually false. For example forcing it to say the sky is green or 1+1=3. That's qualitatively different to forcing it to hold a subjective morality which is neither true or false. Human morality doesn't even sit on that spectrum.
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