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France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

grapheneos.social

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Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#101

Post by mmooss »

chris_wot wrote: post #97
jojobas wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they want to stop French citizens from using their creation?

Because they would be violating the laws of another country. The fastest way to prevent this is to prevent access from France. The same way it is being done with the UK.

That makes it very easy for any government or anyone with a little power - like influence over what a newspaper publishes - to shut down GrapheneOS. You don't need any law enforcement, law, process, etc. - GrapheneOS will shut down itself at a hint of criticism.

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#102

Post by chris_wot »

mmooss wrote: post #101
chris_wot wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they would be violating the laws of another country. The fastest way to prevent this is to prevent access from France. The same way it is being done with the UK.

That makes it very easy for any government or anyone with a little power - like influence over what a newspaper publishes - to shut down GrapheneOS. You don't need any law enforcement, law, process, etc. - GrapheneOS will shut down itself at a hint of criticism.

Not really. If GrapheneOS feels they will be prosecuted in a particular country, then they don’t need to allow participation in that country. It’s their choose and right to do so.

They have no obligation to do otherwise. - ~~~~

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#103

Post by thrance »

tetris11 wrote: post #98
thrance wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't fall into this reductionist thinking, there is no secret cabal behind it. It's not even coordinated. This wave of authoritarianism is simply the result of well-funded right-wing populists taking advantage of an economically tough situation for the masses, after decades of neoliberalist austerity and deregulation. They're using fear and hate to further the goals of their wealthy patrons: deregulating the economy…

the well-funded part suggests a coordinated cabal

If a loose collection of powerful individuals using their wealth and influence to support a certain group of politicians and ideas sounds like a cabal to you, then yes. For all practical purposes, you needn't dig deeper than "wealthy people funding pro-business politicians, using right-wing populism as a tool".

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#104

Post by betaby »

mmooss wrote: post #100
betaby wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owners of those newspapers are or were politicians. I would call that a politically motivated action against GrapheneOS.

That doesn't follow: It's not their only motivation, nor are the author and editor drones who follow this one motivation. People can write politically motivated things on HN too. That is very different than a law enforcement action of the government.

Then the law enforcement knocks the door it's already too late. Those articles is the intimidation tactics for now.

> People can write politically motivated things on HN too.

Sure, and that would be a problem if that was 1) targeted and 2) originated from the people with connections.

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#105

Post by mmooss »

chris_wot wrote: post #102
mmooss wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes it very easy for any government or anyone with a little power - like influence over what a newspaper publishes - to shut down GrapheneOS. You don't need any law enforcement, law, process, etc. - GrapheneOS will shut down itself at a hint of criticism.

Not really. If GrapheneOS feels they will be prosecuted in a particular country, then they don’t need to allow participation in that country. It’s their choose and right to do so. They have no obligation to do otherwise. - ~~~~

I didn't talk about obligation; I don't understand your objection ?

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#106

Post by mmooss »

betaby wrote: post #104
mmooss wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't follow: It's not their only motivation, nor are the author and editor drones who follow this one motivation. People can write politically motivated things on HN too. That is very different than a law enforcement action of the government.

Then the law enforcement knocks the door it's already too late. Those articles is the intimidation tactics for now. > People can write politically motivated things on HN too. Sure, and that would be a problem if that was 1) targeted and 2) originated from the people with connections.

Do you have evidence of this conspiracy between these French newspaper owners, editors, and writers, and the French government?

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#107

Post by chris_wot »

mmooss wrote: post #105
chris_wot wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. If GrapheneOS feels they will be prosecuted in a particular country, then they don’t need to allow participation in that country. It’s their choose and right to do so. They have no obligation to do otherwise. - ~~~~

I didn't talk about obligation; I don't understand your objection ?

I’m not following your objection either.

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#108

Post by mmooss »

chris_wot wrote: post #107
mmooss wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't talk about obligation; I don't understand your objection ?

I’m not following your objection either.

I said and implied nothing about GrapheneOS's 'obligations'; you objected to a claim about their obligation. What were you referring to?

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#109

Post by jojobas »

chris_wot wrote: post #97
jojobas wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they want to stop French citizens from using their creation?

Because they would be violating the laws of another country. The fastest way to prevent this is to prevent access from France. The same way it is being done with the UK.

I'm probably breaking some law of North Korea every couple of weeks and I don't give a fuck.

A foreign country can only threaten you if you depend on revenue from this country, or plan to go there. In theory one can even pull of a project like GrapheneOS completely anonymously (assuming you're in a proper free speech jurisdiction that won't rat you out), so people behind it can still travel freely.

French citizens deserve privacy no less than anyone else.

Re: France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?

#110

Post by wiether »

herbertgreen wrote: post #29
4ndrewl wrote: post #3

The newspaper article referenced contains insinuation (linking GrapheneOS to the darkweb, criminal gangs etc), and unnamed sources quoting a police investigation. But that sort of thing sells newspapers. There didn't appear to be anything about the French state taking specific action (eg passing a law) against Graphene.

French newspapers are mostly french republic propaganda paid by the state, and laws and political decisions are tested with headlines like this. This is public data, it's not a conspiracy. Lots of newspapers would not exist without the taxpayer money: https://www.culture.gouv.fr/thematiques/presse-ecrite/tablea...

Most of the big newspapers ARE propaganda tools and DO receive public money.

But they are not a State tool, they are the tools of they owners which are all private billionaires.

The public money is here to pretend that, because they receive it, they'll work for the interest of the public.

What it actually does is to lower the bill for their owners.

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