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Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

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Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#101

Post by School-Cotton »

maratc wrote: post #97
School-Cotton wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of Taiwan's population consider Taiwan and (mainland) China to be one entity I very much doubt this is true — post a source, if you’ve got one

My experience is a personal one -- a couple of jobs ago I was travelling extensively to Taiwan (on a multi-year ROC visa) and had lots of conversations with people. I can offer a link to ROC constitution (above): > Because the ROC constitution is, at least nominally, the constitution of all China, the amendments avoided any specific reference to the Taiwan area ... Or this passage: > The position of the PRC and the K…

Believing that China and Taiwan should be reunified is not the same as believing that they are, currently, one entity, which is what was originally claimed.

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#102

Post by standardUser »

Jolter wrote: post #21
mg wrote: post #20

I always wanted something like a "History of human progress" which when zoomed out shows me something like this: -2000000 Stone tools -1000000 Using fire -6000 Metal tools -6000 Agriculture -4000 Writing 1550 Printing 1888 Telephones 1888 Cars 1903 Planes 1941 Penicillin 1941 First computer 1982 Homecomputers 1983 Mobile phones 1990 The internet 2001 Wikipedia 2004 Facebook 2007 IPhone 2022 ChatGPT And then I can zoo…

Facebook was not ”human progress”. Future historians will point to its founding as a pivotal point of regression of democracy and humanity.

You could say the same about fossil fuels, moreso perhaps, but we don't, because that would be pedantic.

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#103

Post by prmph »

adwn wrote: post #89
prmph wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he is not complaining that we use the Gregorian calendar. He is pointing out that is just one calendar among many, and we should be aware that it is a conscious choice the world has made to use it by convention.

> But he is not complaining that we use the Gregorian calendar. Yes, he is: >>> Yet this "world" history uses Europe's reference point [of BC/CE] as universal. It wouldn't make sense to use any other than the Gregorian calendar for this map, and it also wouldn't make sense to mix different calendar systems. > He is pointing out that is just one calendar among many […] But it's not. The Gregorian calendar is the calen…

You are making bad faith straw-man arguments.

> Yet this "world" history uses Europe's reference point [of BC/CE] as universal.

What in this sentence indicates he think is it wrong to use that calendar? He is saying it is NOT universal. What about that is hard to understand?

> The Gregorian calendar is the calendar in world wide use today.

Again, you are arguing with a straw-man. Please read my comment carefully again. I am not arguing this your statement.

As an analogy, the WWW is the dominant (probably virtually only) form of the internet in use today, but it is only one architecture. There were/can be others, but they failed to gain or maintain traction. A summary from Google:

> Besides Gopher, other historical internet systems and protocols existed before the World Wide Web, including Wide Area Information Servers (WAIS) and the Archie search engine. While the World Wide Web eventually surpassed them all, these systems provided different ways of discovering and navigating information online in the early 1990s.

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#104

Post by maratc »

School-Cotton wrote: post #101
maratc wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is a personal one -- a couple of jobs ago I was travelling extensively to Taiwan (on a multi-year ROC visa) and had lots of conversations with people. I can offer a link to ROC constitution (above): > Because the ROC constitution is, at least nominally, the constitution of all China, the amendments avoided any specific reference to the Taiwan area ... Or this passage: > The position of the PRC and the K…

Believing that China and Taiwan should be reunified is not the same as believing that they are, currently, one entity, which is what was originally claimed.

I'm not certain what exactly you address as "what was originally claimed," however the world maps in both PRC and ROC show one China, not two, and I'm not certain why it should be a reason to disqualify TLA on the basis that "it fails to portray the current map accurately, by not to (sic) separating PRC and ROC."

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#105

Post by School-Cotton »

maratc wrote: post #104
School-Cotton wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believing that China and Taiwan should be reunified is not the same as believing that they are, currently, one entity, which is what was originally claimed.

I'm not certain what exactly you address as "what was originally claimed," however the world maps in both PRC and ROC show one China, not two, and I'm not certain why it should be a reason to disqualify TLA on the basis that "it fails to portray the current map accurately, by not to (sic) separating PRC and ROC."

> the world maps in both PRC and ROC show one China, not two

That is irrelevant. The map is not the territory. They are two countries in reality; that is, they operate as two separate sovereign countries in every practical way, regardless of what legal fictions are maintained for political reasons.

This atlas is presumably supposed to be about reality, not about legal fictions.

(BTW: North Korea and South Korea officially claimed to be one country until very recently, and South Korea still does. But every map in the outside world shows them as two. Why should China and Taiwan be treated differently?)

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#106

Post by llbbdd »

zulko wrote: post #36

Total plug but this year I scraped 400,000 wikipedia pages with Gemini to create landnotes.org, an atlas where you can ask "what happened in Japan in 1923": https://landnotes.org/?location=xnd284b0-6&date=1923&strictD... https://github.com/Zulko/landnotes My plan has been to overlay historical map borders on top of it, like the Geacron one from this post, but they all seem to be protected by copyright - and understan…

This is very very cool! I went right to the month and year of my birth; kind of the same vibe as finding a newspaper published on the day you were born but all over the world. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#107

Post by prmph »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #69
kbrannigan wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s consider *Sub-Saharan Africa* (itself a label that lumps dozens of distinct civilizations into a single “other” category). These societies kept records not folk tales, not vague legends, but structured historical accounts. * The Kingdom of Kush maintained *3,000 years of king lists*. * Ethiopian monasteries preserved *written chronicles in Ge’ez* for over a millennium. * Mali’s griots memorized *centuries of dy…

The Kush Kingdom was settled around the Nile, it's NOT sub-saharan Africa. And yes, there are a lot of historical artifacts spread out in the world. But how much WRITTEN and RECORDED history can you find? You can find a totem buried somewhere in the south of Argentina, so you know you had an advanced culture there. But can you name them? Does it have the ruler's name? Nobody is arguing that there were advanced civili…

Around Nile excludes sub-saharan Africa? Seems your knowledge of geography is a bit lacking. The Nile runs through 11 African countries.

And, what does sub-saharan even have to do with anything here? Seems like a weird thing to bring up. The people of the Sudan (where Kush and Meroe, etc were located) are one of the blackest people on the planet, nobody is going to mistake them for Mediterranean people, as has been argued with Egypt, itself an African civilization that had strong links to other parts of Africa.

It's kind of funny. Point out that there were advanced civilizations, writing systems, and historical record-keeping in various parts of Africa, and the response for some people is, "ah, but that's not sub-saharan Africa", or, "but, those were not real Africans", etc, etc.

So, the definition of "real" Africa becomes: whatever seems to confirm your biases about what Africa is supposed to be, quite a circular definition.

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#108

Post by OtherShrezzing »

I’d always wanted the World War 2 channel on YouTube to do something like this. They’ve produced incredibly actuate moving borders of every day of WWII for their videos. They’d be a useful historical tool if they were published as an interactive map.

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#109

Post by maratc »

School-Cotton wrote: post #105
maratc wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not certain what exactly you address as "what was originally claimed," however the world maps in both PRC and ROC show one China, not two, and I'm not certain why it should be a reason to disqualify TLA on the basis that "it fails to portray the current map accurately, by not to (sic) separating PRC and ROC."

> the world maps in both PRC and ROC show one China, not two That is irrelevant. The map is not the territory. They are two countries in reality; that is, they operate as two separate sovereign countries in every practical way, regardless of what legal fictions are maintained for political reasons. This atlas is presumably supposed to be about reality, not about legal fictions. (BTW: North Korea and South Korea offic…

> They are two countries in reality

It only looks like this from the West, where the support for independent Taiwan is much higher than in Taiwan itself (not to speak of PRC where it's non-existent.) People in Taiwan don't perceive China as a different country (the way that French perceive Germany for example) but rather as a different (unfortunate) regime over the same nation.

> This atlas is presumably supposed to be about reality, not about legal fictions.

With the current reality in east Ukraine/Georgia/Northern Cyprus/Israel-Palestine/Kosovo/etc.etc.etc., I'm not sure if it's ever possible to get a map that will satisfy everybody, as what is "legal fiction" to you might be "internationally recognised borders" for someone else.

Re: Interactive World History Atlas Since 3000 BC

#110

Post by Jolter »

b112 wrote: post #84
whobre wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it was just an example, but out of curiosity, why 1982 for home computers? Commodore 64?

Not sure why it was listed as '82, but if it was the C64, it makes sense. It's the most sold personal computer ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64 Nuance around this fact would be completely lost in 100 years, let alone 1000 from now.

I’d probably put 1978, but it doesn’t really make much difference if you say it was the TRS-80, Apple II or the c64. The thing happened about then.
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