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How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

joanwestenberg.com

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Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#101

Post by VintageRobot »

> The friend who saw conspiracies everywhere built a following. Then an audience. Then a 7-figure income stream.

That person is almost certainly a grifter. If I was dishonest enough to do it, I would to.

It isn't that difficult if you are reasonably articulate, look reasonably tidy and can upload a 20 minute video once day to get an audience. A lot of these people are simply choosing a "side" and then repeating the talking points.

There are people that make 10-20k a month just reading the news and many of them aren't even good at doing that.

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#102

Post by [deleted] »

baxuz wrote: post #46
biophysboy wrote: post #36

The main issue for me is the size of our platforms. If the owner of a platform tries to enforce a set of virtues, it will always be seen as censorship by a fraction of its users. That fraction will increase as the user base increases, as the alternatives diminish, and as the owners govern with more impunity. I personally think these loud users are immature, disrespectful, anonymous cowards, but my opinions are irrele…

Nah, the solution is deanonymization. People with no shame, and with strong anti-social tendencies should not be given a safe space.

[deleted]

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#103

Post by lazide »

Arainach wrote: post #7
lazide wrote: post #4

The challenge is that short-term incentives can easily lead to long-term problems, as the short-term min/maxing can leave you stuck in a particular global minimum, with no clear way out.

>the short-term min/maxing can leave you stuck in a particular global minimum, with no clear way out. Short term min/maxing leaves you in a local maximum (the opposite of what you said)

Local maximum != global maximum (usually).

I said global minimum, which can easily happen if you end up at local maximum, but you’ll never know unless you randomly search elsewhere (and potentially end up even lower).

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#104

Post by ajkjk »

lkey wrote: post #20
ajkjk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really nothing in the article implied that whatsoever? It's not even about that if you actively try to read between the lines. Like--"liberal as a slur" is just a daily experience of american life these days, irrespective of the details of any of your personal relationships.

> a daily experience of american life You people call you 'liberal as a slur' in real life out in the world? Regardless, projecting your narrow experiences onto 'american life' writ large is not a sound starting point for any conversation. It is the pairing of the term 'manufacturing consent' with "'liberal' as a slur" (from the left, not right) that evokes the genocide. One of the primary consents manufactured in th…

> You people call you 'liberal as a slur' in real life out in the world?

I see it online... everyday? Especially if I go back to the places I used to enjoy but have had to learn to avoid. And yes, anytime I interact with friends' parents, people in my hometown, etc, it's pretty ubiquitously used as a slur. Occasionally ironically since we're a few years past peak mind-virus (I'd like to think), but, yes, all the time.

I think they were listing two unassociated examples of the "people getting radical and weird" phenomenon in that list, not pairing them. I took "manufactured consent" as referring to the Trumpish "mainstream media is all lies" stance. Seems like you invented the israel connection out of thin air. Maybe you know something about the author, but, it wasn't in the article.

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#105

Post by thisisbrians »

rsynnott wrote: post #3

> But exposing yourself to articulate versions of positions you oppose does something valuable: it makes you realize that intelligent people can disagree with you without being monsters or morons. The idea that being articulate implies intelligence and/or sanity is very common, but really a bit weird. You can find plenty of articulate defences of, say, flat earth theory.

Yes, it's easy to cherry-pick an obviously absurd position that could be articulately argued. But the point is that you are definitely wrong about some things and should generally keep an open mind. Even intelligent people are wrong about certain things, and in fact their propensity for rationalization can lead them into some absurd positions. But some of those positions turn out to be right, like the Earth orbiting the Sun, for example.

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#106

Post by whatshisface »

lazide wrote: post #6
rsynnott wrote: post #3

> But exposing yourself to articulate versions of positions you oppose does something valuable: it makes you realize that intelligent people can disagree with you without being monsters or morons. The idea that being articulate implies intelligence and/or sanity is very common, but really a bit weird. You can find plenty of articulate defences of, say, flat earth theory.

However, there are fewer articulate (and internally consistent) defenses of flat earth theory, than say… particle physics. In my experience. Plenty of timecube style ones, however.

Yes, and this is not just due to the intelligence of the "believers" but due to the fact that describing 2=2=2 in a self-consistent way only takes understanding it while describing 2=2=3 in a way that appears self-consistent requires a true rhetorical genius.

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#107

Post by alexachilles90 »

HeinzStuckeIt wrote: post #2

The author writes, “You end up in a world where changing your mind becomes impossible because you've built your entire identity around being right”. Yet social-media personalities regularly do a 180° turn on some issue (e.g. pro-Ukraine to anti-Ukraine or vice versa) and still keep their following and ability to monetize it. Social media is full of parasocial relationships; followers are in love with an influencer’s…

It's more about being confident and extreme on their stance no matter what it is at that particular moment. People are attracted to personalities that are confident and says they are right all the time. Heck, personalities like that gets all the influence in the workplace too. Imagine John Doe in your office who has a solution for every problem and knows the code base like the back of their hand. You might find that they are not so right all the time (maybe 2 out of 3 times it's pure conjecture) but gosh you will go back to him for solutions the next time you run into a problem. What I am saying is that we are attracted to the extreme, the flamboyant, the controversial. Maybe it's time we prioritize critical thinking for the future generation no?

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#108

Post by dfedbeef »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #49
dfedbeef wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Tehran and Flint are good cases for 'average city'?

Yes Both are significantly different but still fail to provide the most basic service: access to clean water I can trivially get access to plenty of clean drinking water in most “wild” places in the world, in fact that’s like the third core thing you learn in survival schools (of which I’ve attended many).

You're doing the thing that the article is talking about. Neither are average examples. I don't know about Tehran, but you have to really be cherry-picking to make a data set where Flint ends up as an average case of municipal water quality.

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#109

Post by biophysboy »

nradov wrote: post #80
hexator wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"enforce a set of virtues" is a weird way of saying "enforcing basic decency". Let's be clear here, people who are rightfully banned are always going to complain. Our opinions as the majority who DO want decent conversations online are not irrelevant. We should not give those people equal weight to those facing actual censorship. Fragmenting the internet will never get rid of the problem that moderation needs to happ…

What is basic decency? Is it indecent to advocate for atheism or if a women posts a picture of herself not wearing a burka? Many people in certain countries would say so. Personally I think those people are insane, and that maximal freedom of expression is the most important human right, but the fundamental problem is that there is no consensus on what constitutes basic decency.

You're correct that decency is a nicer word for conformity. Preventing social discord avoids violence, but creates repression. I think the compromise is basically liberalism. Let people make their own communities. Let people switch communities, criticize other ones non-violently, enforce their own w/ democratically determined rules, etc.

Re: How to stay sane in a world that rewards insanity

#110

Post by dfedbeef »

dfedbeef wrote: post #108
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes Both are significantly different but still fail to provide the most basic service: access to clean water I can trivially get access to plenty of clean drinking water in most “wild” places in the world, in fact that’s like the third core thing you learn in survival schools (of which I’ve attended many).

You're doing the thing that the article is talking about. Neither are average examples. I don't know about Tehran, but you have to really be cherry-picking to make a data set where Flint ends up as an average case of municipal water quality.

Stoked you took a survival class though! I'm not being sarcastic, it sounds fun.
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