Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#101

Post by spectralista » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 12:45 PM UTC

lordleft wrote: post #23

hearsathought wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He's aight. Obviously you enjoy his music and that's fine. But have you experienced all the art from all cultures through all human history to make such authorative statements on such subjective matters?

I understand that a comment such as mine would rankle. I acknowledge that art is subjective, that there's no accounting for taste, etc. And yet, I don't really believe that, deep down. If I did, I'm not entirely sure how I could speak meaningfully to the differences between great and no so great art. Is War and Peace really as good as any other novel? Would it be possible for any two people to meaningfully communicat…

Bach's catalog would be like if Tolstoy wrote maybe 100 novels on the level of War and Peace.

It has nothing to do with subjective taste. The immensity of Bach's work is almost inhuman.

That still wouldn't capture Bach's influence on western music though.

The combination of the immensity, originality and influence is just mind boggling.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#102

Post by spectralista » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 12:53 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #26

tgv wrote: post #8

I listened to them the other day, and I can't say I find them interesting additions to the Bach repertoire, certainly not in comparison to works that date to just a few years later.

Maybe that's why he didn't sign them? Maybe he was on rough times, and just took a gig to write a studio jingle for some corporate presentation of the day just to get paid. Was able to pay rent, and keep working on his other work.

I have listened to a ton of Bach but still have only listened to less than 20% of his works.

This is like listening to the outtakes and demos of a band instead of the actual albums. Pointless when it takes a lifetime to get through the actual catalog.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#103

Post by prmph » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 12:56 PM UTC

lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

I disagree; I find many of Bach’s compositions to be devoid of heart, just intellectual in some mathematical way.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy many of his compositions for what they are. The thing about music and many other arts is that it is a fools errand to attempt to give them a total ordering; there are things to enjoy about wildly differing styles of music that I think people do a disservice to themselves being restrictive.

For example, some don’t like classical music because they say it’s not danceable. Well, duh it’s mostly not, but that’s not the point of it. It about enjoying the melodies and harmony and structure.

So one can compare art on specific axes, but to say such and such is the greatest composer is kind of meaningless to me.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#104

Post by jawilson2 » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 1:16 PM UTC

lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

Something I have always been interested about, but sort of afraid to ask because it is a VERY small jump to unintended racism...

Are there any composers from other cultures that come close to doing what Bach (and Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky, etc) did? Like, I want to hear the Japanese equivalent of the Brandenburg Concertos or Mass in B Minor, all guns blazing. Don't tell me "well, it's the space between the notes that matter..." just overwhelm me with genius that is self-evident the second the music starts. I have a few theories, but haven't really researched it.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#105

Post by d-lisp » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 1:29 PM UTC

prmph wrote: post #103

lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

I disagree; I find many of Bach’s compositions to be devoid of heart, just intellectual in some mathematical way. Now don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy many of his compositions for what they are. The thing about music and many other arts is that it is a fools errand to attempt to give them a total ordering; there are things to enjoy about wildly differing styles of music that I think people do a disservice to themselves…

What pieces do you know ? I mostly listen violin/lute partitas (I sometimes prefer them transcribed to classical guitars (I really enjoy Vidovic and Bream renditions)). I do really like the simplicity of such pieces, which I find to be very lyrical, of course in a far different manner than e.g. Vivaldi...

The chaconne from the 2nd partita in D minor [BWV 1004] I find very powerful; very different from the Brandburg Concertos, which I tend to fancy less.

I mean, of course in the thousand of pieces he wrote, there are pieces that you won't like, and "greatest composer" is an impossible and absurd proposition.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#106

Post by digdugdirk » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 1:35 PM UTC

jawilson2 wrote: post #104

lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

Something I have always been interested about, but sort of afraid to ask because it is a VERY small jump to unintended racism... Are there any composers from other cultures that come close to doing what Bach (and Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky, etc) did? Like, I want to hear the Japanese equivalent of the Brandenburg Concertos or Mass in B Minor, all guns blazing. Don't tell me "well, it's the space between the notes…

Just a point of context - you're looking back at Bach from a historical vantage point where he's been gobbled up and lumped together with the entirety of "western culture".

To his contemporaries, he was a member of a specific national "culture", and influenced by the greats of other European (and non-European) cultures of the time.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#107

Post by _menelaus » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 1:57 PM UTC

lordleft wrote: post #23

hearsathought wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He's aight. Obviously you enjoy his music and that's fine. But have you experienced all the art from all cultures through all human history to make such authorative statements on such subjective matters?

I understand that a comment such as mine would rankle. I acknowledge that art is subjective, that there's no accounting for taste, etc. And yet, I don't really believe that, deep down. If I did, I'm not entirely sure how I could speak meaningfully to the differences between great and no so great art. Is War and Peace really as good as any other novel? Would it be possible for any two people to meaningfully communicat…

I read this in Frasier's voice <3

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#108

Post by cassepipe » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 2:05 PM UTC

jawilson2 wrote: post #104

lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

Something I have always been interested about, but sort of afraid to ask because it is a VERY small jump to unintended racism... Are there any composers from other cultures that come close to doing what Bach (and Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky, etc) did? Like, I want to hear the Japanese equivalent of the Brandenburg Concertos or Mass in B Minor, all guns blazing. Don't tell me "well, it's the space between the notes…

Different cultures have access and then value different cultural expressions. Asking why there isn't the japanese Bach is a bit like asking why there is no spanish Lee Changho

You could make the argument of how elaborate is a piece of art but in the case of individuals like that they are so far off from the median person in their culture that it'd be quite hard to see their achievement as coming from their culture instead of their own cognitive abilities. The societies they grew into either fought them or allowed them to strive but that's about it.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#109

Post by BeFlatXIII » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 2:08 PM UTC

reactordev wrote: post #29

dabluecaboose wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Danse macabre is a true masterpiece. Incredible composer.

Carnival of the Animals is better… Aquarium was my sons childhood theme song

Carnival of the Animals introduced me to high-effort shitposting. There is no other way to describe the less-famous movements.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#110

Post by 1718627440 » Fri, Nov 21, 2025, 2:14 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #65

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume you know Zelenka as well, a contemporary of Bach's (both knew each other and respected each other as composers).

Jan Dismas Zelenka wrote for the Saxon king, and many of his works were never released as a result. Then, they burnt to ashes in 1945. The only extant copies were caught in the bombing of Dresden. We tend to think of "lost works" as something that happened in Antiquity. Nope.

I think this is the real long-term harm the Nazis have done. Sure killing and murdering people is very bad, but after a century it amounts all to the same. What you can't bring back is the whole culture they destroyed.

This is also one aspect why they absolutely hated the Jews. The Jewish culture emphasizes education and Christian were forbidden to take interests in the middle ages. So the Jews became the wealthy educated elite. They were the substrate for the German culture. So in some sense that hatred against the Jews was hatred against the educated and "the establishment".

Also the cities and cultures a lot of famous people, like philosophers and also later statesmen, essentially the countries elite, came from is now destroyed and doesn't belong to Germany any more.