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FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

propublica.org

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Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#101

Post by YZF »

parineum wrote: post #78
YZF wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to note that the scandal going on in Israel wrt/ the chief prosecutor of the IDF leaking a prisoner abuse video was uncovered in a polygraph test. "A routine Shin Bet polygraph test of a senior officer close to Military Advocate General reportedly exposed new clues about video leak, prompting Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara to order a full criminal investigation" https://www.ynetnews.com/article/…

> A routine Shin Bet polygraph test of a senior officer close to Military Advocate General reportedly exposed new clues about video leak... It should probably read, "A senior officer exposed clues during a polygraph test..." The polygraph is a McGuffin. The interviewer applies pressure by psychologically manipulating the suspect. That's all the polygraph is, psychological manipulation.

Maybe. The same can be said for placebo. But if it works - it works.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#102

Post by jandrewrogers »

moron4hire wrote: post #93
pdonis wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these people can't pass TS Where does it say that?

Why would they need a waiver?

Some clearable people simple don’t want to bother with the process, understandably. This discretion exists in part to allow the government to make a risk/benefit judgment for people they deem critical in these cases.

Big companies make these kinds of exceptions for important hires all the time. This is no different.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#103

Post by [deleted] »

05 wrote: post #51
0x53 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, it is illegal for private companies to do that.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really prevent companies from doing things being illegal if they turn out to be profitable enough. You could use a multispectral hidden camera and an mmwave radar fed into 'AI' to simulate a lie detector - you can definitely get pulse and breathing rate out of it, probably also perspiration..

[deleted]

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#104

Post by chemotaxis »

tucnak wrote: post #38
puppycodes wrote: post #26

The only way polygraphs work is by convincing people its an actual lie detection machine. Cops leveredge this belief and tell you that you "failed miserably" so you ultimately confess because "your caught". They are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

This is not accurate. Polygraphs are not detecting lies, they're used to assess your sensitivities; there are really talented interrogators in counterintelligence, whose full-time job is to fuck with you in subtle ways. To poly a person at will is very much a power move, and some guys fucking love it. But that's a different story all together. Most of the time it's a formality like everything else. In reality, people…

> Unpopular opinion: private companies should poly people more often in hiring, it could prove more useful than other arbitrary kind of culture fit interviews. Food for thought.

OK. I'll bite. I'm interviewing with you to be a frontend developer. You have me hooked up to a polygraph. What do you ask?

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#105

Post by wat10000 »

XorNot wrote: post #96
puppycodes wrote: post #26

The only way polygraphs work is by convincing people its an actual lie detection machine. Cops leveredge this belief and tell you that you "failed miserably" so you ultimately confess because "your caught". They are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

Which is a distraction from the fact that taking one is part of the process, and for no reason senior appointees have been exempted. It would be a different matter if the entire process was being removed as policy, but nope, that's not it.

I don’t think either one is a distraction. Corruption at the highest levels of government is a serious problem. Government reliance on pseudoscience is a serious problem.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#106

Post by wat10000 »

YZF wrote: post #28
Ms-J wrote: post #12

Polygraphs must not be used as they are completely unreliable and subject to many issues. The government does a lot of security theater and campaigns to make you believe that they are competent.

It's interesting to note that the scandal going on in Israel wrt/ the chief prosecutor of the IDF leaking a prisoner abuse video was uncovered in a polygraph test. "A routine Shin Bet polygraph test of a senior officer close to Military Advocate General reportedly exposed new clues about video leak, prompting Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara to order a full criminal investigation" https://www.ynetnews.com/article/…

A polygraph test consists of two components: a bullshit machine, and an interview.

The interview is the part that exposed those clues.

The thing about pseudoscience is that it will sometimes appear to “work.” A dowser will sometimes find water. A horoscope will sometimes predict your day. My birthmark has successfully warded off tiger attacks for 40+ years.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#107

Post by viraptor »

puppycodes wrote: post #26

The only way polygraphs work is by convincing people its an actual lie detection machine. Cops leveredge this belief and tell you that you "failed miserably" so you ultimately confess because "your caught". They are about as accurate as flipping a coin.

That's not as accurate as flipping a coin. It's a certain success or a probabilistic failure. A random coin flip could get you the wrong answer either way. But here, if someone confesses to something, you can be sure it's true. (unless you pass the threshold where people would rather lie that they did bad things, but that's a different problem... if you're getting the same results as torture, the interviewer is the problem, not the fake machine)

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#108

Post by wat10000 »

varenc wrote: post #89
themafia wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI and CIA have polygraphs. The FBI and CIA still have moles and they often times operate out of the highest levels. They're like door locks. They keep honest people honest. They provide zero security.

Door locks are a deterrent that increase the difficulty and cost of a crime. If your neighbor's house is locked and yours isn't, then you're going to be more of a target. In that sense they do provide security, but of course any lock might still be defeated. Similarly, I can see how structured psychological interrogation, assisted by a polygraph, is a useful deterrent. The presence of moles doesn't negate all of its…

The difference is that locks actually do work. They’re not merely a psychological trick, they actually do provide a barrier, even if one that might not be hard to defeat.

Considering polygraphs don’t work at all, I have to imagine that an equally effective interrogation could be constructed without them.

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#109

Post by khazhoux »

chemotaxis wrote: post #104
tucnak wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not accurate. Polygraphs are not detecting lies, they're used to assess your sensitivities; there are really talented interrogators in counterintelligence, whose full-time job is to fuck with you in subtle ways. To poly a person at will is very much a power move, and some guys fucking love it. But that's a different story all together. Most of the time it's a formality like everything else. In reality, people…

> Unpopular opinion: private companies should poly people more often in hiring, it could prove more useful than other arbitrary kind of culture fit interviews. Food for thought. OK. I'll bite. I'm interviewing with you to be a frontend developer. You have me hooked up to a polygraph. What do you ask?

“Have you ever used a for non-tabular data to avoid looking up the CSS grid syntax?”

Re: FBI Director Waived Polygraph Security Screening for Three Senior Staff

#110

Post by GolfPopper »

YZF wrote: post #28
Ms-J wrote: post #12

Polygraphs must not be used as they are completely unreliable and subject to many issues. The government does a lot of security theater and campaigns to make you believe that they are competent.

It's interesting to note that the scandal going on in Israel wrt/ the chief prosecutor of the IDF leaking a prisoner abuse video was uncovered in a polygraph test. "A routine Shin Bet polygraph test of a senior officer close to Military Advocate General reportedly exposed new clues about video leak, prompting Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara to order a full criminal investigation" https://www.ynetnews.com/article/…

>This person would not have been caught if it wasn't for this polygraphs screening.

The organization whose crimes she exposed claims she would not have been caught if its wasn't for the polygraph screening. Corrupt law enforcement types love things like polygraph tests because they give them a ready avenue for parallel construction.

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