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AI World Clocks

clocks.brianmoore.com

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Re: AI World Clocks

#101

Post by bayindirh »

bar000n wrote: post #87
deathanatos wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generate an image of a clock face, but instead of the usual 12 hour numbering, number it with 13 hours. Gemini, 2.5 Flash or "Nano Banana" or whatever we're calling it these days. https://imgur.com/a/1sSeFX7 A normal (ish) 12h clock. It numbered it twice, in two concentric rings. The outer ring is normal, but the inner ring numbers the 4th hour as "IIII" (fine, and a thing that clocks do) and the 8th hour as "VIIII"…

It should be pretty clear already that anything which is based (limited?) to communicating words/text can never grasp conceptual thinking. We have yet to design a language to cover that, and it might be just a donquijotism we're all diving into.

> We have yet to design a language to cover that, and it might be just a donquijotism we're all diving into.

We have a very comprehensive and precise spec for that [0].

If you don't want to hop through the certificate warning, here's the transcript:

- Some day, we won't even need coders any more. We'll be able to just write the specification and the program will write itself.

- Oh wow, you're right! We'll be able to write a comprehensive and precise spec and bam, we won't need programmers any more.

- Exactly

- And do you know the industry term for a project specification that is comprehensive and precise enough to generate a program?

- Uh... no...

- Code, it's called code.

[0]: https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2016/08/25/a-very-comprehensi...

Re: AI World Clocks

#103

Post by dwringer »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #74
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's cheating :) You asked it to generate code, which is ok because it does not represent a direct generated image of a clock. Can grok generate images? What would the result be? I will try your prompt on chatgpt and gemini

Gemini failed miserably - a standard 12 hours clock Same for chatgpt And perplexity replaced 12 with 13

> Please create a highly unusual 13-hour analog clock widget, synchronized to system time, with fully animated hands that move in real time, and not 12 but 13 hour markings - each will be spaced at not 5-minute intervals, but at 4-minute-37-second intervals. This makes room for all 13 hour markings. Please pay attention to the correct alignment of the 13 numbers and the 13 hour marks, as well as the alignment of the hands on the face.

This gave me a correct clock face on Gemini- after the model spent a lot of time thinking (and kind of thrashing in a loop for a while). The functionality isn't quite right, not that it entirely makes sense in the first place, but the face - at least in terms of the hour marks - looks OK to me.[0]

[0] https://aistudio.google.com/app/prompts?state=%7B%22ids%22:%...

Re: AI World Clocks

#104

Post by bArray »

otterley wrote: post #89

Watching this over the past few minutes, it looks like Kimi K2 generates the best clock face most consistently. I'd never heard of that model before today! Qwen 2.5's clocks, on the other hand, look like they never make it out of the womb.

It could be that the prompt is accidentally (or purposefully) more optimised for Kimi K2, or that Kimi K2 is better trained on this particular data. LLM's need "prompt engineers" for a reason to get the most out of a particular model.

Re: AI World Clocks

#105

Post by Workaccount2 »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #37
baltimore wrote: post #21

Since the first (good) image generation models became available, I've been trying to get them to generate an image of a clock with 13 instead of the usual 12 hour divisions. I have not been successful. Usually they will just replace the "12" with a "13" and/or mess up the clock face in some other way. I'd be interested if anyone else is successful. Share how you did it!

That's because they literally cannot do that. Doing what you're asking requires an understanding of why the numbers on the clock face are where they are and what it would mean if there was an extra hour on the clock (ie that you would have to divide 360 by 13 to begin to understand where the numbers would go). AI models have no concept of anything that's not included in their training data. Yet people continue to ant…

The problem is more likely the tokenization of images than anything. These models do their absolute worst when pictures are involved, but are seemingly miraculous at generalizing with just text.

Re: AI World Clocks

#106

Post by ryandrake »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #88
ryandrake wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably my biggest problem with AI tools, having played around with them more lately. "You're absolutely right! I made a mistake. I have now comprehensively solved this problem. Here is the corrected output: [totally incorrect output]." None of them ever seem to have the ability to say "I cannot seem to do this" or "I am uncertain if this is correct, confidence level 25%" The only time they will give up or r…

I agree, I see the same even in simple code where they will bend backwards apologizing and generate very similar crap. It is like they are sometimes stuck in a local energetic minimum and will just wobble around various similar (and incorrect) answers. What was annoying in my attempt above is that the picture was identical for every attempt

These tools 'attitude' reminds me of an eager, but incompetent intern or a poorly trained administrative assistant, who works for a powerful CEO. All sycophancy, confidence and positive energy, but not really getting much done.

Re: AI World Clocks

#107

Post by godelski »

echelon wrote: post #43
baltimore wrote: post #21

Since the first (good) image generation models became available, I've been trying to get them to generate an image of a clock with 13 instead of the usual 12 hour divisions. I have not been successful. Usually they will just replace the "12" with a "13" and/or mess up the clock face in some other way. I'd be interested if anyone else is successful. Share how you did it!

That's just a patch to the training data. Once companies see this starting to show up in the evals and criticisms, they'll go out of their way to fix it.

s/13/17/g ;)

Re: AI World Clocks

#108

Post by fancy_pantser »

ryandrake wrote: post #99

I've been struggling all week trying to get Claude Code to write code to produce visual (not the usual, verifiable, text on a terminal) output in the form of a SDL_GPU rendered scene consisting of the usual things like shaders, pipelines, buffers, textures and samplers, vertex and index data and so on, and boy it just doesn't seem to know what it's doing. Despite providing paragraphs-long, detailed prompts. Despite d…

Have you given using MCPs to provide documentation and examples a shot? I always have to bring in docs since I don't work in Python and TS+React (which it seems more capable at) and force it to review those in addition to any specification. e.g. Context7

Re: AI World Clocks

#109

Post by paxys »

Something I'm not able to wrap my head around is that Kimi K2 is the only model that produces a ticking second hand on every attempt while the rest of them are always moving continuously. What fundamental differences in model training or implementation can result in this disparity? Or was this use case programmed in K2 after the fact?

Re: AI World Clocks

#110

Post by godelski »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #37
baltimore wrote: post #21

Since the first (good) image generation models became available, I've been trying to get them to generate an image of a clock with 13 instead of the usual 12 hour divisions. I have not been successful. Usually they will just replace the "12" with a "13" and/or mess up the clock face in some other way. I'd be interested if anyone else is successful. Share how you did it!

That's because they literally cannot do that. Doing what you're asking requires an understanding of why the numbers on the clock face are where they are and what it would mean if there was an extra hour on the clock (ie that you would have to divide 360 by 13 to begin to understand where the numbers would go). AI models have no concept of anything that's not included in their training data. Yet people continue to ant…

Yes, the problem is that these so called "world models" do not actually contain a model of the world, or any world
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