It's sad to see Spain and Italy disrupt the Internet so badly over copyright/IP stuff, of all things.
Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
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Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#102I'm no fan of Cloudflare, but they're completely in the right on that. Infrastructure for blocking websites simply shouldn't exist. Because if it's allowed to exist, it ends up subsumed by political and corporate interests, and becomes a tool of overreach and abuse. We've seen that happen over and over again. If US Trade Office can be leveraged to destroy internet censorship efforts in other countries, then so be it.
> Infrastructure for blocking websites simply shouldn't exist. Isn't that exactly what Cloudflare is, in part? They happily block "malicious" traffic
Part of the reason I don't like Cloudflare. Their "black hole the entire country" function is a function no company should provide.
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Infrastructure for blocking websites simply shouldn't exist. Isn't that exactly what Cloudflare is, in part? They happily block "malicious" traffic
They block traffic reaching your website, not the other way around. For a poor, nitpickable analogy: they keep the bad guys out of your home, but they don't want to take away homes from the bad guys.
We all know the definition of "bad guy" shifts every four years or less
I get what you're saying (they're affording access to info, not access for people) but you can't have one without the other.
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Infrastructure for blocking websites simply shouldn't exist. I think people have forgotten how extreme a position this is: the idea that once something is on the internet, national law simply ceases to apply and governments should have absolutely zero control over obscene material, IP infringment, harassment, libel, foreign propaganda, money laundering, fraudulent financial services, gambling, and so on - simply be…
Nobody's saying the government shouldn't be able to go after the owner of the site and force them to shut it down. It definitely shouldn't be done by third parties though.
How does the US government, force a Russian website, hosted in Russia, for Russian people, following Russian laws, to shut down?
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Defend literal pirates" - imagine if it was the opposite; if the only way to keep a site on the internet without being ddosed into oblivion was to use Cloudflare but also they only permit sites which are approved of by corporate interests. That would be very dystopian. The root problem of course is their de facto monopoly status, as gatekeepers of the internet (if they aren't secretly an NSA run company, the NSA is…
…I find it interesting that you edited the quote to remove their defense of Nazis. Like, that’s just a very odd decision to make when quoting somebody. And you’re covering the ground I already laid in the original comment: > …the only way to effectively punish an operator like Cloudflare is to block its entire IP range, despite the harms innocent customers and users will incur. And I can’t quite figure out a way past…
If you can't defend the premise of knocking Anna's Archive off the internet without hiding behind the tarpit of demanding the conversation be about Nazis, that is extremely telling.
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#106I'm no fan of Cloudflare, but they're completely in the right on that. Infrastructure for blocking websites simply shouldn't exist. Because if it's allowed to exist, it ends up subsumed by political and corporate interests, and becomes a tool of overreach and abuse. We've seen that happen over and over again. If US Trade Office can be leveraged to destroy internet censorship efforts in other countries, then so be it.
[deleted]
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm still kinda confused as to how this works. Doesn't every cloud connected or IoT device just die during a football game in Spain?
Yes. And, who cares really? Maybe the users do, but the Spanish government certainly doesn't! How cheap, I wonder, does a government have to be to sell itself out over ball game broadcasting rights? Could someone like Elon Musk just fly in there and acquire the entire government with some pocket change?
It's literally the mafia. Not metaphorically - I'm told the actual mafia basically owns football in Spain and Italy, which is why the government doesn't do anything about this stupidity.
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Defend literal pirates" - imagine if it was the opposite; if the only way to keep a site on the internet without being ddosed into oblivion was to use Cloudflare but also they only permit sites which are approved of by corporate interests. That would be very dystopian. The root problem of course is their de facto monopoly status, as gatekeepers of the internet (if they aren't secretly an NSA run company, the NSA is…
Akamai, CloudFront, whatever Googles service is, a bunch of other ones I can't think of compete in the same market. Cloudflare obviously is good at what they do but there decently are many fine CDN/DDOs prevention companies.
If we are considering the social implications of Cloudflare being pressured to deplatform anybody who disrespects intellectual property, then why should we simultaneously assume that the other handful of companies offering a comparable service wouldn't be similarly pressured?
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#109On the one hand, Cloudflare crying crocodile tears for their policy decisions isn’t remotely moving. If anything, their plea for US intervention feels incredibly insincere given that their business has been to defend literal Nazis and Pirates alike for decades, and if you’re going to build a business out of defending bad actors, well, you best be prepared for the consequences. That being said , they’re absolutely rig…
I knew about the Nazis, but I wasn't aware Cloudflare defended literal sea pirates? When did that happen? I guess the US Navy?
Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Infrastructure for blocking websites simply shouldn't exist. Isn't that exactly what Cloudflare is, in part? They happily block "malicious" traffic
They block traffic reaching your website, not the other way around. For a poor, nitpickable analogy: they keep the bad guys out of your home, but they don't want to take away homes from the bad guys.
With your analogy, they aim to keep the "bad guys" out of all homes, which is the same thing as saying those guys can't have homes. Also the "bad guys" group you're referring to includes, like, my cousin Jake because he accidentally crashed his pushbike into a car once when he was 6, but doesn't include Adolf Hitler for some reason.