So you can see why they put it in scare quotes. Just above your reply another says it's politically neutral to adopt whatever pronouns the speaker feels is valid, and not punish them for it. This is "neutral" in that it sides with the speaker regardless of who they are, but is clearly designed to allow bigots to misgender freely. That is the point, "neutral" is not so trivially defined, and often falls on the side of…
So you can see why they put it in scare quotes. Just above your reply another says it's politically neutral to adopt whatever pronouns the speaker feels is valid, and not punish them for it. This is "neutral" in that it sides with the speaker regardless of who they are, but is clearly designed to allow bigots to misgender freely. That is the point, "neutral" is not so trivially defined, and often falls on the side of…
Thank you, this is exactly what I was getting at.
What would you consider to be truly politically neutral, then? Because it seems we're in agreement that a decision to "refer to all trans people using they/them" would not fit the bill. But whether it's politically neutral or not, it's unnecessarily exclusionary; that's what I take issue with.
(for the record I do realize the phrase 'politically neutral' is vague and unclear, and often used as a conservative dogwhistle, which is why I generally avoid it)
An example of the sort of Code of Conduct I personally feel is the most inclusive and 'politically neutral' in a non-scare-quotes-dogwhistle way is the Hacker News guidelines[0]. I think the moderation in general here does a good job of promoting open discussion across people from a wide variety of backgrounds.
But what if we did that 5 years ago? Oops. And even Java's API has problems too. Why not let it be provide by the ecosystem where it can qctually evolve?
What problems does Java JSR 310 have (old Java time yes, but those are known issues)? As far as I have used it, it was damn near perfect.
It lacks a hybrid duration type. Instead, it splits durations into calendar and time durations and conflates the length of a `day` depending on whether it's in `Period` or `Duration`. And AFAIK, it doesn't support time zone aware duration rounding. And I don't see a way to compute a `Period` from two `ZonedDateTime` values in a way that respects time zone transitions.
To be clear, it's good. But there are mistakes that the Temporal project learned from and fixed.
(Temporal's single `Duration` type does have pros and cons, so I don't mean to frame having two distinct types as a strict negative. But it's very clunky.)
So let me get this straight. You want the benefit of being able to re-use other peoples' codebase by using an HTTP crate you didn't write. But you don't want those people to also use that benefit of depending on other crates. Insisting that you should depend on code which itself has no dependencies is a bit hypocritical if you ask me. If you want a simple HTTP crate that doesn't have dependencies, you should follow y…
I think this is rather hostile. There is moderation from not using dependencies or from using too many dependencies. I don't think GP is advocating for no dependencies, either. Even vendoring and pinning dependencies provides benefits.
I think it's the perfect amount of hostility. People shouldn't complain about things given to them for free built by amateurs in their spare time. Including fewer dependencies adds more time to developer's effort. Including packages into std requires more work from the Rust team (mostly volunteers). If top comment isn't satisfied with the stuff given to them for free, they can make their own software.
A bit of a tilted take. Zig's BDFL was an early major supporter of Rust. It was Rust's core maintainer group who excluded him and warred against his language. The leaders decided any "memory unsafe" language was against "consensus"; first C, then Zig. They even posted on Twitter, calling Zig a "step backwards". This Language Supremacism was even worse in conferences and in private. Today, you can see a lot of the cor…
The beef you're talking about here is between pcwalton and Andrew. Patrick posted those things after he had left Rust leadership. Andrew and I literally got some tacos last week. I mean, I'm not in Rust leadership anymore either, but this sort of thing just isn't recognizable to me outside of, again, a few posts by one person who no longer even worked on Rust.
Yes, he was free to express his bigotry once he stepped down. Before that, Patrick was the leader and he hated non-memory-safe languages. He was not the only one, and that hate got worse after he left.
It's nice you got tacos with Zig's BDFL and I don't categorize you as a "hater". Rather, I think the Rust Core Group altogether was toxic. Unable to see their hate as hate, and having memories largely selective and largely untrustworthy.
Non-political almost always means "accept the social status quo I am used to". I think there is a reasonable argument that the default for a community with technical goals should be to accept social status quo conventions unless they conflict with the communities technical goals. But if the social default is "girls don't code and queers should hide" there is a reasonable counterargument that these conflict with the g…
> But if the social default is "girls don't code and queers should hide" Queers should hide definitely isn't any social default unless the code is exclusively developed in Gaza. "Do what you like but please stick to technical considerations" isn't "you need to hide".
You seem to have read that as literally "hide if you are queer". What I meant to encompass was also "hide that you're queer". And that's absolutely a norm that exists, and that can perfectly well hide behind "stick to technical considerations". If you say "I prefer to be referred to by these pronouns" then the reply "please stick to technical considerations" is not neutral. If someone would point out @acronym_XYZ is actually a woman when someone referred to her as he, nobody would reply with "please stick to technical considerations". "Please stick to technical considerations" as a response to any behavior that is outside some societal default is not enforcing a technical concern, it's enforcing the societal default, including when there are no technical reasons to do so.
That doesn't mean that "Please stick to technical considerations" or quite simply "that's off-topic" are never valid. They very much are. It simply means that they don't provide some clean clear demarcation line around which to organize a technical community.
I think Rust primarily being a C++ replacement has been acknowledged ever since it was considered for use in Firefox.
This whole idea of an "x replacement" doesn't make any sense in the first place. Language boundaries are not that strict. People say "Zig is a C replacement, Rust is a C++ replacement" but even Andrew Kelley himself says that Zig is a replacement for the C++ he was writing at the time. I work with a lot of C folks who never liked C++ who liked Rust.
Then these languages' developers and/or vocal users should not have used it.
Like you said, even Andrew Kelley said that Zig is a replacement for the C++. At the time. IIRC he kept going back and forth C and C++, although I may be wrong. I only remember him saying C++.
> But if the social default is "girls don't code and queers should hide" Queers should hide definitely isn't any social default unless the code is exclusively developed in Gaza. "Do what you like but please stick to technical considerations" isn't "you need to hide".
You seem to have read that as literally "hide if you are queer". What I meant to encompass was also "hide that you're queer". And that's absolutely a norm that exists, and that can perfectly well hide behind "stick to technical considerations". If you say "I prefer to be referred to by these pronouns" then the reply "please stick to technical considerations" is not neutral. If someone would point out @acronym_XYZ is…
> If you say "I prefer to be referred to by these pronouns" then the reply "please stick to technical considerations" is not neutral.
There's no single societal norm in worldwide source projects; that's just you monolithing a diverse set of groups. In this particular instance if you're just a GitHub handle then whether you're female or you wish to be called "her" then that doesn't require hiding that you're "queer", but it also doesn't require mentioning it. Just say, "actually it's 'she'" and you're done.
You seem to have read that as literally "hide if you are queer". What I meant to encompass was also "hide that you're queer". And that's absolutely a norm that exists, and that can perfectly well hide behind "stick to technical considerations". If you say "I prefer to be referred to by these pronouns" then the reply "please stick to technical considerations" is not neutral. If someone would point out @acronym_XYZ is…
> If you say "I prefer to be referred to by these pronouns" then the reply "please stick to technical considerations" is not neutral. There's no single societal norm in worldwide source projects; that's just you monolithing a diverse set of groups. In this particular instance if you're just a GitHub handle then whether you're female or you wish to be called "her" then that doesn't require hiding that you're "queer",…
I thought you merely misread my comment. But it really seems you are very determined to pretend that there are no reasons for people to hide that they are queer, which, given the current political climate, is just bizarre to me.
Rust came first, so people who didn't like Rust flocked to Zig as an alternative, and were keen to promote it as an alternative to Rust by criticising Rust, as wider usage would provide them more of an ecosystem to use in their own Zig programs. People who were happy with Rust didn't have same need to criticise Zig in online spaces as Rust is the established player in the C alternatives space. (Though Rust is on the…
> people who didn't like Rust flocked to Zig as an alternative, and were keen to promote it as an alternative to Rust by criticising Rust, as wider usage would provide them more of an ecosystem to use in their own Zig programs. > People who were happy with Rust didn't have same need to criticise Zig in online spaces as Rust is the established player in the C alternatives space. (Though Rust is on the other side when…
Agree with your take on Zig, as it's clear their leadership promotes a foul filled war on other C alternative languages. Not just Rust, but others like Vlang, Dlang, C3, etc... HN has become dominated by them, where other languages (outside of Rust and Zig), can get very little shine. When they do, their light often gets snuffed out quickly.