Meeting A Troll • Hacker News Board

Re: Meeting A Troll

#101

Post by prawn » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:08 AM UTC

Do we have to be careful not to brand this sort of behaviour as trolling? Trolling to me is often mild and more for a laugh rather than for quite malicious purposes. It's easier to ignore.

Anything that constitutes targeted harassment, stalking, bullying and the like should always be framed around those stronger terms. They cannot be things that kids grow up doing for a laugh with friends. They need to be clearly framed as the sort of things that have repercussions, put you on the flipside of society, etc.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#102

Post by jessedhillon » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:15 AM UTC

unreal37 wrote: post #45

knieveltech wrote: post #23

I am truly amazing by this post. What an incredible human being the OP is. If faced with a similar situation I'm quite certain I lack to moral fiber to conduct myself with that level of class. Odds are excellent I would have pasted that kids guts all over the street.

Having someone arrested is not "lack of moral fiber". It may be the opposite - the courage to bring a criminal to justice, testify against them, potentially lose his friendship... What the 17-year old did was vicious and clearly criminal.

Courage, as a word, stems from cor -- one's heart and innermost feelings, and so courageousness is the resolve to express one's heart.

Therefore, it is literally more courageous to confront an attacker directly and to express one's feelings honestly, than it is to run to the authorities, even when one is entitled to do so. It's more courageous to confront someone face-to-face, tell him how you were hurt by what they did, and communicate that you still care about him and want to be involved with his correction.

To say that "it may be the opposite..." i.e. it may be cowardly to directly confront someone who hurt and frightened you, is just bizarre and I suspect reactionary tough-guy talk. In what world would it be cowardly to confront and attacker and show both your vulnerability and your determination to work with him, but courageous (in any sense of the word) to send the police over to his house to pick him up?

Re: Meeting A Troll

#103

Post by minitrollster » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:16 AM UTC

yelsgib wrote: post #96

minitrollster wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading this, I can only say one thing: you're living in fantasyland. This is the real world, not some libertarian utopia. And regarding your last point, what about pedophiles? Rapists? Should we just surround them with love and forgiveness?

Yes, I believe we should surround them with love and forgiveness. We also should -have- provided them with love and forgiveness so that they would feel comfortable talking about their problems before they could result in severe issues. What do -you- suggest we do? Beat them up? "Teach them a lesson?" What will that accomplish, exactly? --- Let me just say that I sense a great deal of pain in you. This is not an attac…

I'm not sad. I'm just completely baffled at your outlook on the world. Your idea of how thing should work is so far removed from any working system that I just don't know what to say.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#104

Post by hide » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:20 AM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #21

ANTSANTS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's hope it wasn't "use a proxy."

Or "cry when you get caught."

No worries, eventually he’ ll darn goof and the cyber police will be there to take care of the rest ;)

Re: Meeting A Troll

#105

Post by minitrollster » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:21 AM UTC

yelsgib wrote: post #93

minitrollster wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing: actions have consequences. Bad actions result in bad consequences. Such is the learning process of lots of species. Do you think training pets by reinforcing good behaviour and punishing bad behaviour is modern and supported by "state propaganda", whatever that means? I do believe that prison systems can be good at rehabilitation. Maybe not in the US, where you seem to be from, but it's working in m…

Who do you trust to administer punishment? What did they do to earn that trust? The concept that one class of humans is the "punishers" who are teaching the other class(es) underlies most (if not all) fascist/authoritarian/racist ideologies of the last 3 centuries. Of course you don't see what's wrong with punishing behavior that has been deemed unacceptable by society. Unfortunately, behavior that society is largely…

>The concept that one class of humans is the "punishers" who are teaching the other class(es) underlies most (if not all) fascist/authoritarian/racist ideologies of the last 3 centuries.

So I'm Hitler now.

>legalize drugs and prostitution and 99% of these problems go away.

Seriously?

Re: Meeting A Troll

#106

Post by jessedhillon » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:25 AM UTC

nhashem wrote: post #29

For what it's worth, if you're the target of especially terrifying harassment like this, it's important to keep two things in mind: the more targeted the harassment is, the easier it is to identify the harasser, and the more likely it is that there's some sort of personal connection. If you're receiving stuff in the mail (like the lunchbox with ashes) or stuff literally just dropped on your doorstep (the dead flowers…

A security professional once recommended Gavin de Becker's "The Gift of Fear" [1] to me as a source of excellent information to always have in mind.

One of de Becker's insight is exactly what you say here -- that most potential attackers are motivated by a personal connection, and that animus is also what makes it possible to identify and uncover them. He also has extensive thoughts about identifying if/when the harassment will cross over into physical attacks. I would recommend anyone read it, especially if you have loved ones who have lived in fear of stalkers.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violenc...

Re: Meeting A Troll

#107

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:40 AM UTC

ary wrote: post #97

wamatt wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I loathe being the guy defending trolls, the level of judgement expressed in this thread is a bit troubling. Labeling this kid a 'pyschopath' might feel nice, but it's rather inaccurate. [1]. Specifically when he saw the damage he'd caused, a very human emotional response of remorse and regret kicked in. We have no reason to believe it's fake, especially given we weren't the one's there, and the author bel…

First, I'm well aware of the definition of psychopathy. Second, psychopathy is not a binary condition. An individual can be on a spectrum of severity, or (as has been noted by people researching the condition) psychopaths can and do mimic the responses to emotion that they see in others but do not feel themselves. Perhaps he is or perhaps he isn't, but without additional action of the part of the OP and the kid's par…

[deleted]

Re: Meeting A Troll

#108

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:42 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #107

ary wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I'm well aware of the definition of psychopathy. Second, psychopathy is not a binary condition. An individual can be on a spectrum of severity, or (as has been noted by people researching the condition) psychopaths can and do mimic the responses to emotion that they see in others but do not feel themselves. Perhaps he is or perhaps he isn't, but without additional action of the part of the OP and the kid's par…

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[deleted]

Re: Meeting A Troll

#109

Post by nitrogen » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:42 AM UTC

minitrollster wrote: post #91

yelsgib wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, to situate this conversation in a framework where "alternatives" are to be considered is to already assume an authoritarian stance. I believe that the model you are assuming is one in which there is some sort of established "government" which selects among alternative systems sharing the property that they are maintained by varying degrees of implicit/explicit use of force. I would never claim to know…

After reading this, I can only say one thing: you're living in fantasyland. This is the real world, not some libertarian utopia. And regarding your last point, what about pedophiles? Rapists? Should we just surround them with love and forgiveness?

It seems it's much easier for someone who has experienced marginalization to advocate against it.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#110

Post by rooshdi » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 6:47 AM UTC

zainny wrote: post #71

muhuk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would probably do the same thing, I would probably not report the child of my friend to authorities. But looking at this as a third person; I think he got away too easily. He did something evil, he got caught and what are the consequences? A slap on the wrist.

That's the problem with the "loving community will fix everything" theory in a nutshell. Parents or friends of a person who is dangerous to society will turn a blind eye, be more easily coerced, manipulated, etc. A loving community will see the signs of recovery in a person, not because there is necessarily any, but because it's what they want to see.

There are outliers, but love has contagious qualities in most instances.