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Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

telegraph.co.uk

101–110 of 149 posts

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't even care if china is attempting to surveil me Flip it around. You're in China. Would you want the CIA to have access to your life? Of course not, unless you're an idiot. Every intelligence agency has near-limitless utility for disposable stooges.

There is no universe in which foreign intel trying to blackmail you over some bit of info is worse than the local agencies doing the same.

> no universe in which foreign intel trying to blackmail you over some bit of info is worse than the local agencies doing the same

You're comparing conditional probabilities without considering the priors. Given you're being coerced, it's worse to have that done by power close than power afar.

The downside for the FBI blackmailing an American is significant. Of course it happens and has happened. But it's weighed. The downside for the CIA doing pretty much fuckall is highly limited. This results in the common asymmetry in non-autocratic countries between domestic and foreign surveillance budgets and, subsequently, targets. (If it came out that the CIA had been leveraging the porn habits of Chinese citizens to coerce them into spying for it, I'm not sure there would be any backlash in Washington. That's literally their job.)

That example, by the way, hints at the lack of mutual exclusivity in your example. Every one of those disposable agents would subsequently be punished by Beijing. Same as if you got played by Russia or China (or Pyongyang or a non-state criminal outfit). The blackmail only works because you're rationally afraid of your local agencies--the CIA has limited means by which to directly coerce Chinese citizens in China.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries, or that people in many countries get paid time off to move home , or that people in other countries don’t go into crippling debt for education. No, no. THAT is not acceptable.

>Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries there is a difference between 'good healthcare' and 'available healthcare'. the US has some of the highest quality healthcare in the world to those that it is made available to. the worlds' most rich and famous come to the US for treatment -- and the poorest in the US are among the most plentiful medical tourists to Malaysia and Thailand. I…

Except its not 6 years for the vast majority of people?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas...

~75% of people get diagnosed in >and the poorest in the US are among the most plentiful medical tourists to Malaysia and Thailand.

This is such an absurd statement. The poorest Americans can absolutely not afford travel to the other side of the world for treatment.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#103
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they sold well in the US, they would bring in more of them. But they don't. The auto industry would rather use its limited assembly line capacity for the highest margin products, which are large luxury internal combustion vehicles. We have long been in the era of lean manufacturing, where assets like factories are hyper-optimized for returns to capital, not for making products to serve all needs or desires. Why…

The Toyota fanboy mob will be along shortly to downvote you for saying bad things about our lord and savior lean manufacturing. (joking, but not as much as I want to be)

Is it hard to get a Corolla?

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#104
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they sold well in the US, they would bring in more of them. But they don't. The auto industry would rather use its limited assembly line capacity for the highest margin products, which are large luxury internal combustion vehicles. We have long been in the era of lean manufacturing, where assets like factories are hyper-optimized for returns to capital, not for making products to serve all needs or desires. Why…

The Toyota fanboy mob will be along shortly to downvote you for saying bad things about our lord and savior lean manufacturing. (joking, but not as much as I want to be)

> saying bad things about our lord and savior lean manufacturing.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is, and car companies don't exist to make affordable new products for everyone. "Obese" manufacturing won't result in more affordable cars either, not while housing, education and healthcare continue to eat away at Americans' stagnant income growth.

If affordable transportation is the goal, we probably need to get past personal car ownership.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1970s Detroit thought the Honda Civic was a joke as well. How could it ever compete against the Pontiac Astre or the Buick Skyhawk they thought...

It couldn't compete. Those cars were shit, just like the Chevettes they were competing against. It was all shit. All of it. The imports were typically slightly more expensive to boot. They sold well because you could get a Civic or whatever with a nice radio and they had a bunch of them on the lot in automatic and all the other things buyers cared about beyond just A to B because for the Japanese automakers shit was…

That's not the point. It was that the market hypothesis of supply simply responding to demand doesn't actually hold.

People sell things based on their perception of future consumer sentiments, calculated margins, defensible moats, lots of things.

If someone wanted a compact sedan but the only thing for sale was SUVs, they aren't going to be like "I refuse! Bus pass for me" no. They will just bite the bullet and purchase the SUV.

Then the analysis will say "well people are buying the SUV! It looks very popular we should make more of them! I told you sedans were a bad idea!"

The supply and demand economics 101 ways of thinking are for fools and simpletons. It's why the iPhone wasn't a BlackBerry knockoff

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#106
post #77
post #3

I’ve seen some crazy stories on YouTube about people trading in cars they’re already underwater on just to finance an even more expensive one. I can’t understand why banks keep lending money for deals like that.

It feels like musical chairs. The banks make money as long as the music continues to play.

When the music stops everyone rushes for a chair only to find there aren’t enough chairs for everyone. I’m starting to hear the music stutter.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#107
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries, or that people in many countries get paid time off to move home , or that people in other countries don’t go into crippling debt for education. No, no. THAT is not acceptable.

>Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries there is a difference between 'good healthcare' and 'available healthcare'. the US has some of the highest quality healthcare in the world to those that it is made available to. the worlds' most rich and famous come to the US for treatment -- and the poorest in the US are among the most plentiful medical tourists to Malaysia and Thailand. I…

> How many hundreds of NHS horror-stories are produced a year?

Less than the millions of horror stories produced by the lack of anything like the NHS in the US.

That number is not just hyperbole. There are on the order of a million homeless people on the US, and 50-70% of them cite medical debt as a major reason why. This is literally unimaginable in any European country.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#108
post #3

I’ve seen some crazy stories on YouTube about people trading in cars they’re already underwater on just to finance an even more expensive one. I can’t understand why banks keep lending money for deals like that.

> I can’t understand why banks keep lending money for deals like that.

Because if they ever stop lending the music just abruptly stops. The entire US economy grinds to a halt and takes the entire world down with it. Even just raising the interest rates is enough to provoke cataclysmic events that wipe out billions and billions of dollars overnight. I can't even fathom what would happen if banks stopped lending money.

The US economy is so addicted to cheap credit it would rather forgive debts and bail out banks than let it all come crashing down. Debt is so pervasive, everyone is so thoroughly leveraged, that if there's too many defaults it would cause an endless cascade of further defaults that could threaten the entire economy. It'd take an act of god to fix this.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#109

And yet automakers think that the smaller more affordable cars that do well overseas somehow have no audience in the US. For instance, the Geome Xingyuan is $10k, Hongguang Mini EV is $5k. Instead we have the average cost of a new car at $50k.

If they sold well in the US, they would bring in more of them. But they don't.

Ok, this comment obviously touched a nerve, but as a non-USian I don't quite understand why. You can pick up a new Kia Forte for $20k. I was about to suggest the even smaller Kia Soul, but it was discontinued because, drum roll, it didn't sell well enough.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#110

And yet automakers think that the smaller more affordable cars that do well overseas somehow have no audience in the US. For instance, the Geome Xingyuan is $10k, Hongguang Mini EV is $5k. Instead we have the average cost of a new car at $50k.

The wealthy are buying larger more expensive vehicles. The poorer are either holding onto their existing cars (the average age of an American car went up from 11 years to 12 years or so) or buying the used larger ones from the wealthy.
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