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Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

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Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#101

Post by stevehawk »

kimos wrote: post #90
choilive wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its remarkably straightforward. Not fool-proof, but easy. Bacteriostatic water, single use needles/syringes, and self healing injection port vials makes it simple to maintain sterility throughout the process. Multiple doses can be mixed and stored in the fridge for 4-6 weeks.

While I agree and this all seems reasonable, I think you give the average person far too much credit.

it's extremely common. everyone i know that's on a glp-1 does it this way. that way you can buy it in bulk for a discount. i buy mine roughly 35 weeks worth of doses at a time.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#102

Post by JumpCrisscross »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #84
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With de minimis for US-bound packages suspended I suspect way more packages are inspected than used to be But a smaller fraction. If you’re paranoid, route it via the UAE. All my European and Indian shippers are doing that for tariff-free pricing. (Personal stuff. I’ll pay a customs duty if I get it, of course.)

You can import from UAE without paying any duties or fees?

At least for wine, furniture, cheese, olive oil, art, kitchen equipment and medicine, at least from Italy and Germany and India and Taiwan, in the last six months, allegedly.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#104

Post by dghlsakjg »

SoftTalker wrote: post #100
dghlsakjg wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price in Canada is ~$175 USD month for name brand Ozempic where I am with no coupons, or other discounts. I see prices in the US around $800+/month. That is significantly cheaper than the US, and cheaper than other GLP-1 class drugs up here, arguably reasonable. Is the supposition that they would have been forced to charge even less? If so, why are their competitors who kept their patents not charging more? Count…

Everyone I know taking these is buying generic compounded formulas. Insurance mostly doesn’t cover it so the go for the cheaper options.

That doesn't figure into the pricing strategy or giving away patent protection in Canada in 2018 as far as I can tell?

Compounding isn't allowed in Canada, currently, so I assume you are talking about the US? Compounding Ozempic in the US wasn't a thing in 2018 when this patent was released in Canada, so not sure what one has to do with the other.

What are you getting at in reference to the argument that the patent was released intentionally in order to charge a higher price?

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#105

Post by llm_nerd »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #20

AIUI, because they let the patent expire, the drug was not subject to price regulation by the government. So they could charge whatever. And during most of that time, they were still protected by 'data exclusivity' which means that any generic producer could not get approved without doing their own clinical trials, until 8 years had passed. So they gave up some period of exclusivity in return for being able to charge…

>And during most of that time

Most of what time? The patent just expired a few months ago. Generics are now ramping up because the patent expired, not because of some hypothetical eight year clinical trials. And for that matter, generics of existing ingredients and dosages do not have to repeat clinical trials anyways, which is one of the big reasons generics are a lot less expensive.

This hypothesis seems retconned and completely at odds with the actual facts. Not least that there has been absolutely nothing exceptional about the pricing of their product in Canada, which has always been one of the cheaper pricings worldwide.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#106

Post by sbrother »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #65
tavavex wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Well, about that... Aren't all variants of medications like these prescription-only? And in Canada you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it, as far as I know.

> you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it This is how medical tourism typically works.

Is that process that can happen online? Or does it require the patient being physically present in Canada?

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#107

Post by petesergeant »

tavavex wrote: post #54
killingtime74 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry about the law think about the practical impact. It's now completely legal to ignore the patent in Canada so the price in Canada will plummet. Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infring…

> Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Well, about that... Aren't all variants of medications like these prescription-only? And in Canada you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it, as far as I know.

Plenty of countries where having a doctor in the pharmacy is common practice. Buy some retail space in YYZ and you're set...

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#108

Post by delfinom »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #84
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With de minimis for US-bound packages suspended I suspect way more packages are inspected than used to be But a smaller fraction. If you’re paranoid, route it via the UAE. All my European and Indian shippers are doing that for tariff-free pricing. (Personal stuff. I’ll pay a customs duty if I get it, of course.)

You can import from UAE without paying any duties or fees?

I mean that entire region has bought the president, even got themselves a military base being built on American land now too.

So why not.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#109

Post by wasabi991011 »

nextos wrote: post #67
bawolff wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically when people get fired for something like this they are just the scapegoat. A failure like this isn't just one dude forgetting, its a system failure where policies and checks failed. If it is solely up to one person that is a failure in and of itself.

Some people, including legal experts, claim it could have been intentional: https://www.legal.io/articles/5691258/Novo-Nordisk-Lets-Cana... . I was surprised Science didn't discuss this option. However, reader comments in Science do comment on this possibility. The idea is that letting the patent lapse would avoid getting regulated by the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board. I know several people working at NN, and…

Just FYI, this isn't "by Science", it's by Derek Lowe, this is his blog, which is hosted on Science>Commentary>Blogs. In its description, Lowe says it is "editorially independent".

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#110

Post by Marsymars »

aspenmayer wrote: post #95
nextos wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The process for the patent to lapse in Canada is quite long, and you get warning letters once deadlines are close. There is also a possibility of a paying a late fee and, finally, there is also a reinstatement process. NN could have missed all these, but they would have to be a really dysfunctional organization. Definitely not a low bus-factor situation.

I wasn’t casting aspersions on NN, but jumping off from the allusion that was made by the user who I replied to. I don’t know what kind of sequence of events could lead to this outcome at NN, but perhaps they were hoist by their own petard. I’m reminded of the “money on the ground” joke involving two economists, which is semi-famous in these parts. To wit: > Economist 1: Look, there’s $20 on the ground! > Economist 2…

Even at large corps, it's fairly common to outsource IP work to law firms that specialize in IP - and if you're Danish, it might make sense to outsource to a Danish law firm that has its own worldwide IP contacts (rather than getting your own worldwide branch offices to handle local IP laws everywhere). One of said contacts might then pawn off the work onto a junior, who then has their assistant handle all communiques from CIPO. Said assistant could then entirely drop the ball.

I've zero idea about anything specific to Novo Nordisk, but have enough exposure to IP in Canada to envision the above happening in other cases.

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