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Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

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Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#101

Post by delichon »

Judgmentality wrote: post #32
robobenjie wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great one. The manipulation is hard, but we're probably on a trajectory to be able to do it in 1-3 years if you were tolerant of some risk to the baby, but, of course, your tolerance for injuring babies is basically zero. I think 'risk & reliability' is a good potential category: there is the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough that we got a video' and the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough…

> but we're probably on a trajectory to be able to do it in 1-3 years This is wildly optimistic. I quit working in robotics because I got tired of all the bullshit promises everybody made all the time. I'm not saying robotics isn't advancing or the work is unimportant, but the spokespeople are about as reliable as Musk when it comes to timelines. I doubt it will happen in 10 years, even with a constrained environment…

Musk said something the other day about SpaceX being an operation that converts impossible to late.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#102

Post by luma »

dmillard wrote: post #3

Interesting post and great reference to [1] about why laundry hits a sweet spot of capability. Interestingly the repeated critiques in the article are about sensor richness: primarily force feedback and tactility, which indicates lacking hardware. Software only robotics has a long and fraught history, but it really feels to me that current industrial hardware could be driven more intelligently without much change. No…

Agreed - force sensitivity can be had for the princely cost of a cheap motor current sensor on each axis, everything else is a software issue.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#103

Post by delichon »

camillomiller wrote: post #82
shubb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it needs a water gun. If the diaper was a spray on layered rubber, like a sponge then an impermeable layer, and then you sprayed a solvent to clear the old diaper and poop and then spray on a new one. You'd just need to slot them into styrups briefly or some socks on strings to move the legs into a good position. But can this be done with baby skin and lung safe chemicals at a reasonable temperature? Point be…

Yeah I also think we should just replace the baby with a spherical squishy lump of celluloid-wrapped fat with no limbs. Much more convenient.

It's more common to replace them with dogs.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#104

Post by wiz21c »

robobenjie wrote: post #21
bnjmn wrote: post #18

Here's a use case that seems more science fictional to me (as the parent of a 2yo) than warp drive: a robot that can gently restrain an uncooperative human baby while changing its diaper, with everything that entails: identifying and eliminating all traces of waste from all crevices, applying diaper cream as necessary, unfolding and positioning the new diaper correctly and quickly, always using enough but never too m…

This is a great one. The manipulation is hard, but we're probably on a trajectory to be able to do it in 1-3 years if you were tolerant of some risk to the baby, but, of course, your tolerance for injuring babies is basically zero. I think 'risk & reliability' is a good potential category: there is the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough that we got a video' and the bar of 'got it to do a task reliably enough…

after fiddling for 10 minutes with the baby, while being late for the day job, because it KEEPS ON MOVING while your changing the FRIGGING diaper that is full of FECES I can assure you that my tolerance is clearly above zero :-)

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#106

Post by Symmetry »

k__ wrote: post #94

Is someone building synthetic skin? Like, just a piece of silicone with a few sensors, pressure, heat, etc. that you can "glove" around a robot.

It's a topic of research but the need for durability combined with the amount of sensing we want makes it a hard problem.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#107

Post by thenthenthen »

robobenjie wrote: post #2

Hey Hacker News. Curious if folks feel like I'm missing categories of challenge.

Tie your shoe laces? Pet a cat. Open one of those scissors that are sold in those fused plastic boxes, requiring a scissor to open. Opening a packet of tissues (wet ones for extra challenge). Cook rice. Throw out the trash.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#108

Post by bnjmn »

trhway wrote: post #30
bnjmn wrote: post #18

Here's a use case that seems more science fictional to me (as the parent of a 2yo) than warp drive: a robot that can gently restrain an uncooperative human baby while changing its diaper, with everything that entails: identifying and eliminating all traces of waste from all crevices, applying diaper cream as necessary, unfolding and positioning the new diaper correctly and quickly, always using enough but never too m…

> a baby some robot neglects to prevent from falling off the changing table that is when we think about 2 handed robots. 6 handed robot can easily have 2-3 hands assigned to tightly keeping the baby. Humanoid robots are handicapped by their similarity to humans which is really an artificial constraint. After all we aren't building airplanes using birds as the blueprint. On the similar note - while not about baby, was…

> Humanoid robots are handicapped by their similarity to humans which is really an artificial constraint.

YES, and I wish people would stop pretending we've unlocked some new generality by promoting generic humanoid robots over task-specific ones.

You can probably Rube-Goldberg your way to a diaper-changing robotic enclosure with a 3D baby bidet that uses many low-force robot arms to subdue (most) babies, but a humanoid robot is a very a poor substitute for a human here.

Plus, a human can take personal responsibility for the baby's safety, which is not something a robot can ever do, unless we somehow make the robot fear for its life/freedom/employment the same way the overarching social/legal system does for humans who sign contracts or accept highly accountable roles.

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#109

Post by jayGlow »

tintor wrote: post #51
inasio wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already robots that do that (autobelayers)...

Not really. Auto belay device can't hold the climber up on the wall, like human belayer can, so that climber can rest and try again. Auto belay device can't do lead belay.

They're not wide spread but they can do lead belay, I've seen a few videos of it online

https://climbingbusinessjournal.com/could-your-gym-be-gettin...

Re: Benjie's Humanoid Olympic Games

#110

Post by nerdsniper »

nerdsniper wrote: post #47
robotresearcher wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would require an entirely different kind of robotics. I was 100% with you until suddenly this technical claim pops out. You might feel this way, and might be right, but why ? Changing a diaper is crazy hard, I absolutely agree, but you seem to be just declaring from vibes that we 'require an entirely different kind of robotics'. Can you put your finger on why this is true? Not nitpicking for the fun of it - I'm…

The main limitation right now is that robotics are very limited in their sense of touch. After that, they are limited in their understanding of physics. After that, perhaps understanding of physics and physiology would come into play - but perhaps superhuman perception and reaction time could reduce the need for intuitive understanding physics and physiology.

s/"physics and physiology"/"baby behavior and physiology"

in case anyone was wondering why I proffered "physics" in two different sentences.

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