How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods • Hacker News Board

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#101

Post by orochimaaru » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

Insanity wrote: post #2

As a European who moved to Canada and spends a fair amount of time in the States, one thing that really surprised me is how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones. Food was a bit of a concern before moving, but I didn't know just how frustrating it would be. Even something as simple as Yogurt is usually insanely sweet / sugary compared to European variants. Ingredients that are banned…

Just get plain unsweetened full fat yogurt. Every store has that. Yeah - the sweetened/flavored variety are more but the basic unsweetened is also easily available.

Bread is a bit of a shit show. Stick to something like sourdough for 0 adde sugars.

Hormones are banned for meat and poultry. I’m not sure how antibiotics are treated. Fwiw - with vegetarian food you also run the risk of pesticide contamination.

Either way, my point is that there’s a lot of options but do your research before you hit the store and in general try to limit highly processed food

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#102

Post by supportengineer » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

arrozconcosas wrote: post #90

nradov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Antibiotic resistance is a concern but the FDA has made progress in that area. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr... The EU bans routine antibiotic use for promoting animal growth but antibiotics are still widely used for other purposes. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/n…

They exist but are a small minority of the shelf. You have to really look for them.

This begs the question - is it reasonable for the consumer to put in a little work - reading labels and doing research outside of the grocery store?

I find that you do the research once, and then you know what to buy next time.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#103

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

arrozconcosas wrote: post #90

nradov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Antibiotic resistance is a concern but the FDA has made progress in that area. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr... The EU bans routine antibiotic use for promoting animal growth but antibiotics are still widely used for other purposes. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/n…

They exist but are a small minority of the shelf. You have to really look for them.

Ridiculous.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#104

Post by arrozconcosas » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #36

I just opened up www dot amazon dot com and filled my cart with $50 worth of food that will be delivered to my door in a few hours: rice, potatoes, farro, beans, peppers, ginger, onions, garlic frozen peas, frozen carrots, plain low-fat yogurt, chicken thighs, and good bread. I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food. If anything, American capitalism has heaped upon us…

If you make a system that has 1,000 nudges towards Fruit Loops and hides the healthy thing, then it isn't just an individual choice. Nudges include advertising, availability, addictive ingredients, misleading marketing claims, food engineering, etc. I recommend reading this to get an understanding of how much effort goes into making people make the wrong choices: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinar...

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#105

Post by vector_spaces » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #81

vector_spaces wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that you recognize that your casual-outsider evaluation of the assortments of these stores is deeply flawed and not based on actual data. If you think about it even just a little bit, you'll recognize that it wouldn't make sense for a supermarket in one of the highest median income cities in the country to have assortment parity with a chain targeting cost conscious shoppers. The devil here is in the long-tail…

I hope you recognize that your claims are deeply flawed and don't align with the reality that most middle-class grocery shoppers experience. Regardless of what you think makes "sense", major supermarkets throughout the country have rough assortment parity (with minor differences for regional consumer preferences). In some cases the long tail is actually longer in lower median income cities because labor is cheaper an…

Yes -- I know that my experiences don't align with most middle-class grocery shoppers: I worked in the food business for a decade where assortment was literally my job. There is a lot that casual shoppers like you don't notice! That's actually built in.

In any case, I love most of what you have written here.

Online ordering enables larger long tails. In which market do you suppose online ordering is more common, Daytona Beach or Mountain View?

If you were managing assortment at a Publix in Daytona Beach, how would you structure your long tail? Would you look to a Safeway in Mountain View as a model to follow?

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#106

Post by portaouflop » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

orochimaaru wrote: post #101

Insanity wrote: post #2

As a European who moved to Canada and spends a fair amount of time in the States, one thing that really surprised me is how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones. Food was a bit of a concern before moving, but I didn't know just how frustrating it would be. Even something as simple as Yogurt is usually insanely sweet / sugary compared to European variants. Ingredients that are banned…

Just get plain unsweetened full fat yogurt. Every store has that. Yeah - the sweetened/flavored variety are more but the basic unsweetened is also easily available. Bread is a bit of a shit show. Stick to something like sourdough for 0 adde sugars. Hormones are banned for meat and poultry. I’m not sure how antibiotics are treated. Fwiw - with vegetarian food you also run the risk of pesticide contamination. Either wa…

In my experience the store has 10000 different kinds of sweetened yoghurt and exactly one that is “real” yogurt - often doesn’t have full fat yogurt at all.

Completely impossible to get normal bread unless you go to some hipster store that charges an insane amount for it.

It’s just really really hard to get decent food in America, which is crazy because the land is so rich in resources and nature.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#107

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:58 PM UTC

vector_spaces wrote: post #71

nradov wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food deserts do exist but appear to have no meaningful effect on eating habits. https://news.uchicago.edu/story/food-deserts-not-blame-growi...

You made a claim that plain yogurt is generally available in US food markets, attempting to make an inference about grocery store selections drawing from your own experience. I pointed out that it is not actually generally available and noted that your experience does not generalize. I am not sure why you mention eating habits, since this is not what is being discussed

People that live near gas stations drive to grocery stores for their groceries.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#108

Post by vector_spaces » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

BetaDeltaAlpha wrote: post #74

vector_spaces wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that you recognize that your casual-outsider evaluation of the assortments of these stores is deeply flawed and not based on actual data. If you think about it even just a little bit, you'll recognize that it wouldn't make sense for a supermarket in one of the highest median income cities in the country to have assortment parity with a chain targeting cost conscious shoppers. The devil here is in the long-tail…

Safeway is the cost conscious option in Mountain View, compare it with the other options (Whole Foods, Nijiya). The comparison between Publix and Safeway is apt.

The "cost conscious" option in a city with one of the highest median incomes in the US is very different from a cost conscious shopper in a city like Daytona Beach, where practically a quarter of the population lives below the poverty line!

I will also point out that "cost conscious" is one of several shopper profiles that Safeway targets, but broadly speaking Safeway targets a more affluent shopper (although cost conscious isn't the same as non-affluent). The degree to which a particular location services these targets varies by area. But no, these stores target fundamentally different shoppers and think very differently about assortment, at least with regard to the long tail

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#109

Post by supportengineer » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #55

vector_spaces wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In large swaths of the country, these "non-grocery stores" are a lifeline, as they are the only option. In others, you don't even have that -- gas station convenience stores might be that lifeline instead. [1] I am familiar with what the grandparent is referring to, having spent a decade running purchasing teams in US grocery stores. Even in urban areas with many different food retail stores, a typical supermarket in…

The SF Bay Area is hardly an outlier. There may be more specialty grocery stores here, but the large supermarkets where most consumers buy most of their food are the same as anywhere else. If you compare a Safeway in Mountain View, CA to a Publix in Daytona Beach, FL or a Kroger in Toledo, OH there isn't much difference in the products available.

Safeway has an in-house organic brand, "O Organics". I can easily go to Safeway and pick up only organic foods. I don't know if that's true for Publix or Kroger.

UPDATE: ChatGPT tells me that at Publix it's called "GreenWise Organic" and at Kroger it's called "Simple Truth Organic"

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#110

Post by morsch » Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #45

throwway120385 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's marked as "plain" yogurt. You can still find adulterants in it, just not added sugars. For example Trader Joe's "plain yogurt" is a mixture of yogurt and buttermilk.

I don't understand your comment. Trader Joe's sells plain yogurt with no added buttermilk. https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/greek-whole-mil... Or you can buy essentially the same thing for less at Walmart. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mountain-High-Low-Fat-Yogurt-Vani... While there are some people who live in "food deserts" with very limited options, complaints by most HN users about the difficulty of find…

The Walmart thing has pectin in it as a stabilizer/thickener, which, benign as it may be, qualifies as an adulterant. And it's not permitted in plain yogurt in Germany (though usually added in fruit/flavored yogurt).