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American solar farms

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Re: American solar farms

#101

Post by mantas »

soared wrote: post #93
mantas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically I could see some reasons. Grids need serious upgrades to support personal solar properly. Which is €€€ and, if end-customers would have to foot the bill themselves, very few people would install solar at home. On top of that, at least in my whereabouts solar is receives a fuckton of subsidies. In the long run lower energy prices will pay back those subsidies for the society, but for now I could see why so…

This is a good reply since it feels accurate but generally is not, which captures the sentiment of those opposing solar. 1. “The grid needs an upgrade”. This is true regardless of whether solar exists or not. Energy demand, battery technology, etc have all changed but the grid has not kept pace (on purpose). End customers may foot the bill, again, regardless of solar. 2. Solar does receive more subsidies, intentional…

I am not an electrician, but big problem with home-solar is grid not being bi-directional. In my whereabouts it's common to have good „down“ power, but no permit for „up“ back to the grid. Which makes it not worth it for home users. Batteries make it somewhat better, but it's still far from ideal.

For big commercial arrays, the grid used to have main lines to certain old school plants. Now for solar new major lines are needed to middle-of-nowhere locations to connect solar and wind farms. While old-school plants were more concentrated and closer to major locations, it was less costly than major lines out-there and to many more locations. And, obviously, investors into solar/wind ain't willing to food those bills.

The problem with solar subsidies, especially when it comes to home solar, is that they're very skewed to favor better-off people.

As for Chinese, yes, something needs to be done. But for now I kinda understand people who ain't happy subsidies are ending up in China.

Re: American solar farms

#102

Post by Zigurd »

ben_w wrote: post #39
Zigurd wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Nebraska, you're talking about food for cattle. The profit per acre is low and so the price is low.

1. The Nebraska price is the 17th highest on that list. Nevada and Montana are both below $1k/acre. I've seen Nevada in person, I can guess why the small amount of possibly-arable land I saw there might be cheap, never been to Montana but the Google street view photos told me the same story. 2. If the profit per acre is low, surely this just means they don't have a better use for the land? 3. Even if you assume they'…

The point I was trying to get across is that, because animal feed is an inefficient way of making people food, it's a little tendentious to say that we're trading food for energy.

Re: American solar farms

#103

Post by walkabout »

zdragnar wrote: post #92
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the argument against it? I've never heard any logical reasons beyond hating the Left. It's like hating bikers, why? The same people that have pickup trucks and swerve to intimidate bikers, seem to hate solar energy. But why?

Most of the "real" opposition is against providing further federal subsidies, along with it doesn't eliminate the need for base load during bad weather. The closing of the Ivanpah Solar Power Facility has been making the rounds, as it had received $1.6 billion in funding but can't compete. I think most people would be less opposed if they saw the math behind more of the actual PV installations. > It's like hating bik…

Yeah, I don’t hate bicyclists in the “I would try to make them feel less safe” sense (I tend to go way the opposite way, if anything) but I do dread seeing them when driving or walking in the same spaces. They’re really unpredictable, and their presence creates extremely unsafe-feeling situations for everyone around.

When I ride a bike, I don’t do it in places where, when I encounter a bike driving, it makes me especially anxious.

Re: American solar farms

#104

Post by enraged_camel »

bongodongobob wrote: post #67
dzonga wrote: post #45

the sad thing about this data is how politicized clean energy has become. the blue states have a lot of energy solar - while the red ones are sparse. the red ones get a lot of sun while the blue ones don't.

Yeah, in Oconto county Wisconsin, residents are all up in arms about a solar farm going up. It's the poorest county in the state and would bring in much needed money. The arguments against it are "this destroys farmland", "who will clean the snow off of it in winter", "I don't like how it looks", "static electricity will kill the crops around it", "it will raise the temperature of the surrounding area", "you can't re…

>> "who will clean the snow off of it in winter"

Not sure why they are whining. Sounds like job creation to me!

Re: American solar farms

#105

Post by AtlasBarfed »

volkl48 wrote: post #96
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the argument against it? I've never heard any logical reasons beyond hating the Left. It's like hating bikers, why? The same people that have pickup trucks and swerve to intimidate bikers, seem to hate solar energy. But why?

(To preface: I am strongly in favor of renewable energy overall). To the extent that there is anything real to their dislike: Poorly structured/overly generous homeowner net metering initiatives, especially for solar without storage, legitimately have escalated costs for everyone else in some regions. The excessive subsidy given to those homeowners for power that's often not very valuable (as it comes primarily at a…

Highest demand for energy is during the day.

Highest output of solar is during the day.

Your comment about energy supply implies we just don't need any solar at all.

I think we need is a large set of incentives to do home solar with storage.

Re: American solar farms

#106

Post by AtlasBarfed »

walkabout wrote: post #103
zdragnar wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the "real" opposition is against providing further federal subsidies, along with it doesn't eliminate the need for base load during bad weather. The closing of the Ivanpah Solar Power Facility has been making the rounds, as it had received $1.6 billion in funding but can't compete. I think most people would be less opposed if they saw the math behind more of the actual PV installations. > It's like hating bik…

Yeah, I don’t hate bicyclists in the “I would try to make them feel less safe” sense (I tend to go way the opposite way, if anything) but I do dread seeing them when driving or walking in the same spaces. They’re really unpredictable, and their presence creates extremely unsafe-feeling situations for everyone around. When I ride a bike, I don’t do it in places where, when I encounter a bike driving, it makes me espec…

Who is driving the two ton vehicle that has killed millions worldwide?

Re: American solar farms

#107

Post by abetusk »

davedx wrote: post #75
chasd00 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas is about as red as it gets and leads the nation in renewable energy including solar. Red or blue, if the gov can setup a situation where renewable energy is profitable then nature will take its course. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/texas-tops-us-states...

Renewable energy is profitable

Renewable energy is already profitable.

Re: American solar farms

#108

Post by walkabout »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #106
walkabout wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don’t hate bicyclists in the “I would try to make them feel less safe” sense (I tend to go way the opposite way, if anything) but I do dread seeing them when driving or walking in the same spaces. They’re really unpredictable, and their presence creates extremely unsafe-feeling situations for everyone around. When I ride a bike, I don’t do it in places where, when I encounter a bike driving, it makes me espec…

Who is driving the two ton vehicle that has killed millions worldwide?

Yes, of course. But the bikes are the ones making the space those murder-machines operate in operate differently from how it usually does, which is inherently not great.

I’d like to see car use reduced as much as the next sane person, but I still go “ah, goddamnit” when I see a bicyclist approaching an intersection or come up on one going uphill on a twisty no-shoulder 35+ mph road.

Re: American solar farms

#109

Post by rob74 »

davedx wrote: post #75
chasd00 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas is about as red as it gets and leads the nation in renewable energy including solar. Red or blue, if the gov can setup a situation where renewable energy is profitable then nature will take its course. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/texas-tops-us-states...

Renewable energy is profitable

Yeah, but if hindering it is an excellent way of pandering to your fossil fuel donors while at the same time "owning the libs", to hell with it!

Re: American solar farms

#110

Post by MisterTea »

bluGill wrote: post #63
jstanley wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all the kinds of power plant, a solar farm has to be the least intrusive.

Nuclear is a good candidate - they take up a lot less land mass for the amount of power generated. I used to leave near one, and when my neighbors where asked where it was most pointed instead to a coal power plant many miles away.

I mean sure, nuclear is very interesting but the cost right now is so sky high vs renewable that it's a massive uphill battle to even consider it. Then factor in the negative public perception and waste disposal issues and that hill you have to fight up just became a vertical wall. Solar and wind are low cost and high return. Maybe one day it will make sense but today it does not.
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