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A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

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101–110 of 199 posts

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#101

These Tepe sites give credence to advanced civilization existing before the last ice age. One example is the mostly dismissed theory of water erosion at the base of the Sphinx, suggesting older civilizations leading up to ancient Egypt. To my understanding, it is mostly dismissed because archaeologists found the idea of something older than the Sphinx to be not possible. Tepe sites challenge this. Wild stuff.

There were most assuredly many, many older civilizations. Humans have been more or less the same for at least 200k years and have had the same capabilities the entire time. We have preserved artwork much older than this and much finer.

If you mean to say and advanced civilization, then no this isn't really upsetting any orthodoxy.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to nitpick: the Tepe sites definitely did not have forced labor. they had no social hierarchy at all. hunter-gatherers were fairly egalitarian. definitely sedentary neolithic people had forced labor. all the Sumerian legal texts that were some of the first writings ever included legal definitions of slaves, for example. but the pre-neolithic Anatolian people were nomadic animistic people with no social hierarchy…

Any sort of tribal situation would result in forced labor, and cultures would have formalized notions of slavery, indentured service, arbitrary terms based on religious or traditional ideas. The tradeoff of survival for forced labor is an economic plight that happens frequently throughout history. Chattel slavery is inherently degrading, but it has ranged from ritualistic and formal to downright horrifically maliciou…

You had me until you said electricity. That implies metal, and we certainly have the tools to find metal that old, but have found nothing crafted by homo anything, afaik. Would it all be too buried? One would imagine that somewhere some evidence would have surfaced. But iirc oldest metalworking is from ~11kya

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#103
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy has a whole netflix show if you're so inclined https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMHiLvirCb0

I only watched a little bit of his stuff before I realized people thought he is a kook. But in small doses some of this stuff can sound like sense. The one that got me was a supposed foundation legend from Sumer that a handful of strangers came and taught them civilization. The idea of a remnant people floating down a river to escape some sort of societal collapse and then being adopted into a new tribe for their use…

> before I realized people thought he is a kook

But what is your own opinion?

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#104
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what extent is our understanding of this period limited by survivorship? Granite doesn't weather significantly, so we see lots of metalithic stone structures with ambiguous dating. The near east had significant changes in inland climates so we find ancient cities that were not built over there. Soft rock/mud Brick structures can survive in dry climates - so we see evidence of the oldest civilizations in deserts. C…

> Colonial New England barely exists outside of active preservation attempts. As someone who grew up there, this isn't really true. It's more that buildings have been upgraded/replaced over time by choice, resulting in a sparse patchwork of old buildings rather than large old cities. Places like the Wayside Inn[0] predate the country by a century, and have been "preserved" only because they have more-or-less continuo…

Some years back an aunt and uncle owned a cottage in Devon (near Exeter) with 1649 carved into the wall by the front door.

Cottages like that had a simple timber frame and cob walls, which is only a slight improvement on wattle and daub! Cob is mud and straw and a few binding agents and traditionally: horse piss to act as an accelerant to aid setting or something. Floors are joist and boards. The roof is thatched, often with a "cat slide" and foundations are laughable.

The thatch needs replacing something like every 25-50 years. Cob needs patching, especially if the roof leaks (not replaced on schedule) and it starts rotting. However all this stuff happens gradually and it can be repaired gradually too in most cases, as and when you like and within budget.

A concrete structure ... let's say Charles Cross multi-storey car park in Plymouth ... well hello concrete cancer! OK this is a bit different to the cottage but let's see how the "modern" world has progressed with a building material that was used by the old Romans and likely before.

A concrete beam on its own is "quite" good as a supporting material. Conc is superb in compression and quite good in tension. In a horizontal beam when you put a load on it, the top will be compressed and the bottom will be in tension. Think about a wide thin rectangle and imagine pushing down on it. Imagine it bending into a U shape - the top side will be compressed and the bottom will be stretched (tension). That's a fairly simplified model!

Now, cast your concrete beam around a long steel bar and put nuts and washers on both ends and tighten them so that the entire beam is in tension. There are other methods to do this but this is easier to envision.

Now you have locked in a lot of energy into the system. The upside of "pre-stressed" concrete is that a given beam ("member") cross section can carry a lot more weight than a non pre-stressed member. The down side is that deliberate demolition is really hard and non deliberate demolition is possible.

So, that concrete cancer thing. Conc cancer is caused when salty sea air and moisture (rather likely in Plymouth) permeates conc made from Portland cement. Its more complicated than that but the sea salts are key. The conc gradually degrades in a rather strange way - map cracking and a gel develops in the cracks (I think, I studied this stuff quite a while back). The usual conc matrix ends up with weak lines running through it.

Anyway - you have energy locked up in members and those members are failing. Boom!

There is a lot to be said for old school materials and practices.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's clearly Turkish, which would make sense for an obelisk in an ancient site in Turkey, not Thailand

I'm not sure if Turkey and Thailand were concepts as we have them today 12,000 years ago.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#110
post #105

Um.. Is anyone else seeing what I am seeing

Here's another carving from the same site, depicting both what you thought you were seeing and what you were actually seeing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karahan_Tepe#/media/File:Karah...

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