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Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

technology.riotgames.com

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Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#101

Post by andrewflnr »

Cyph0n wrote: post #51
andrewflnr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I distinctly remembered that Eve Online was in Erlang, went to go find sources and found out I was 100% wrong. But I did find this thread about a game called "Vendetta Online" that has Erlang... involved, though the blog post with details seems to be gone. Anyway, enjoy! http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2102

Eve used Stackless Python. CoD Black Ops used/uses Erlang for most of its backend afaik. https://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/395/Erla...

There's the real answer. This should be a reply to the original question!

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#102

Post by forrestthewoods »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #98
forrestthewoods wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of things work fine when you throw twice as many dollars at them. It’s not a matter of it working or not. It’s a matter of economics. Most game servers are single threaded because the goal is to support the maximum number of players per dollar. A community server doesn’t mind throwing more compute dollars to support more players or higher tick rate. When you have one million concurrent players - as CounterStrike…

Sure, twice as many dollars in the immediate term. In the context of a particular tick rate being decade(s) old, it's more like deciding whether you can host 50x or 100x as many players per dollar of infrastructure. The upside of a higher tick rate grows as computers and connections improve and the downside shrinks semi-exponentially.

Also twice as many dollars in the future term! The downside very much does not decrease “exponentially”.

It would be interesting to know what Valve’s server costs look like over time. They definitely spend the pretty penny. And any business would prefer to spend one penny rather than two.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#103

Post by Dylan16807 »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #102
Dylan16807 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, twice as many dollars in the immediate term. In the context of a particular tick rate being decade(s) old, it's more like deciding whether you can host 50x or 100x as many players per dollar of infrastructure. The upside of a higher tick rate grows as computers and connections improve and the downside shrinks semi-exponentially.

Also twice as many dollars in the future term! The downside very much does not decrease “exponentially”. It would be interesting to know what Valve’s server costs look like over time. They definitely spend the pretty penny. And any business would prefer to spend one penny rather than two.

> Also twice as many dollars in the future term! The downside very much does not decrease “exponentially”.

The downside measured in dollars continues to decrease exponentially. If it's $100 today, soon it will be $30. It's still "twice", but the thing you're twice-ing is smaller and smaller and smaller.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#104

Post by mrheosuper »

andrepd wrote: post #62
sosodev wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CS2 is mostly 64 tick from what I understand. The "sub-tick" stuff is timestamping actions that happen on a local frame before the next tick. So in theory the client feels perfectly responsive and the server can adjust for the delta between your frame and the tick. In practice it seems to have been an implementation nightmare because they've regularly shipped both bugs and fixes for the "sub-tick" system. The netcode…

It's actually incredible how CSGO was such a great game and it's been replaced (not deprecated, replaced!) by CS2 which is still inferior over 2 years after the launch.

CS2 while still has some rough edge, i think it's fine. I don't have any complaint with it, and i has been day 1 player.(but just casual)

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#105

Post by combyn8tor »

wyldberry wrote: post #81
Havoc wrote: post #66

You can mess with the code all day long, but you're not getting away from raw latency. The modern matchmaking approach groups people by skill not latency, so you get a pretty wild mix of latency. It feels nothing like the old regional servers. Sure the skill mix was varied, but at least you got your ass handed to you in crisp <10ms by actual skill. Now it's all getting knife noscoped around a corner by a guy that rub…

Good thing they thought of that. Disclaimer: I was at Riot During some of the Valorant dev cycle and the stated goal in this tech blog [0] was a huge goal (keeping latency This was only really doable because Riot has invested significantly in buying dark fiber and peering at major locations worldwide [1][2] [0] - https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netc... [1] - https://technology.riotgames.com/ne…

I've read those articles a couple of times over the years and always found it fascinating they actually built a backbone with dark fibre. That was ten years ago so it would be interesting to see an update.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#106

Post by namibj »

jsheard wrote: post #55
orlp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, OSRS is 100 ticks per minute which gives 0.6 second ticks, which rounds to 1.667 ticks per second.

Eve Online probably wins the slowest tickrate award with its whopping 1 tick per second.

I thought EVE was (near?-)tickless but with all interaction subject to substantial cool down timers that limit input frequency into the core?

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#107

Post by aidenn0 »

Thaxll wrote: post #42
whalesalad wrote: post #12

I wonder if any game servers are implemented in Erlang?

You'll never get a modern FPS gameserver with good performance written in a GC language. Erlang is also pretty slow, it's Python like performance. Very far from C#, Go and Java. The other reason is that the client and the server have to be written in the same language.

I don't know about Erlang, but in other GC languages I've used, the GC only matters if you allocate; if you pre-allocate all of your buffers when the game is created, the GC doesn't matter. The other points remain true though.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#108

Post by [deleted] »

Thaxll wrote: post #42
whalesalad wrote: post #12

I wonder if any game servers are implemented in Erlang?

You'll never get a modern FPS gameserver with good performance written in a GC language. Erlang is also pretty slow, it's Python like performance. Very far from C#, Go and Java. The other reason is that the client and the server have to be written in the same language.

[deleted]

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#109

Post by [deleted] »

Hikikomori wrote: post #10
fngjdflmdflg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from 2020. Valve wanted to be smart and invented a new "subtick" system in 2023 which isn't as good as 128 tick. To make things worse, CS is a paid game, not free like Valorant, and makes probably much more money. They seemingly just don't care enough about the problem to solve it correctly. That or there is more work to be done on subtick to make it work better than 128.

CSGO could do 128 tick, Valve just doesn't want to pay for it, but you can easily find private hosted servers with 128 tick. Riot did put in a lot of work to get it down so much though.

[deleted]

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#110

Post by NoPicklez »

Thaxll wrote: post #39
actionfromafar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Fortnite is allegedly 30 ticks per second.

Fortnite has to handle 100 players on the same process, very different from 128hz @10players max.

BF3 & 4 had 64 player maps with tick rates over 100hz in the end. Yes it wasn't the default but they still existed.
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