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Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

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Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#101

Post by zrm »

guywithahat wrote: post #89

It's always struct me as interesting that ladybird is built with C++. I like C++, and prefer it to languages like Rust, but it's not uncommon to see new OSS projects using weird languages and the newest tools. Lots of languages offer improvements in regards to threading models, development speed, or cross-platform support which we don't get in C++. I suppose their success is likely directly related to the fact they m…

It's the same language most of the code in Chrome and Firefox is written in.

It's also not clear what you're looking for in terms of cross-platform support. Some languages provide better standard library support for UI elements, but that's the part a browser will be implementing for itself regardless.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#102

Post by MatthiasPortzel »

daft_pink wrote: post #31

I think it’s just fantastic that the Ladybird browser is close to being usable. I was under the impression this was going to take many years before it became competitive.

Three years ago I was very skeptical of Ladybird. But two things have changed. First, they have funding for 8 full time engineers, which I definitely wasn’t expecting. Second, it’s been three years. So given that, I am more optimistic.

There’s still a very long way before they can compete with Chrome, of course. And I’m not sure I ever understood the value proposition compared to forking an existing engine.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#103

Post by echelon »

ericmcer wrote: post #56
pizlonator wrote: post #6

Super impressive that an independent, non-corpo project has gotten this far this quickly.

It is nuts, when you think about how much a browser does, it is a crazy feat. Just building a good html/css renderer and a JS engine is crazy, but now you are hooked into the ecosystem and at the mercy of whatever comes next. Chrome can push back against proposals but little browsers either use chromium or are basically in a riptide trying to make sure they keep up.

The government(s) need to force Google to obey web standards that are set by an industry consortium. One that also has small player participation as a requirement.

If Google is strong arming or pushing ahead their own agenda, the standards body should have plenty enough votes to veto.

And for teeth, compliance should be a requirement for Google to even be allowed to have its own browser. If they break it, no more browser for Google.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#104

Post by zrm »

mcny wrote: post #7
ActionHank wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC I think the roadblock isn't that they need to be approved, but that they can only distribute in the EU.

Is distribution the only problem? If Mozilla or Google were to make their code freely available on some git forge like GitHub and I cloned the repo and built it myself, would I be able to run it for seven days or something in the US?

> If Mozilla or Google were to make their code freely available on some git forge like GitHub

https://github.com/mozilla-firefox/firefox

https://github.com/chromium/chromium

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#105

Post by miloignis »

guywithahat wrote: post #89

It's always struct me as interesting that ladybird is built with C++. I like C++, and prefer it to languages like Rust, but it's not uncommon to see new OSS projects using weird languages and the newest tools. Lots of languages offer improvements in regards to threading models, development speed, or cross-platform support which we don't get in C++. I suppose their success is likely directly related to the fact they m…

I believe they are or will be transitioning to Swift: https://x.com/awesomekling/status/1822236888188498031

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#106

Post by BirAdam »

guywithahat wrote: post #89

It's always struct me as interesting that ladybird is built with C++. I like C++, and prefer it to languages like Rust, but it's not uncommon to see new OSS projects using weird languages and the newest tools. Lots of languages offer improvements in regards to threading models, development speed, or cross-platform support which we don't get in C++. I suppose their success is likely directly related to the fact they m…

LadyBird grew out of the SerenityOS project which was originally written in C++ (they've since moved to Jakt). All software for Serenity had to be written natively for the OS, and C++ was the language originally supported there. Andreas had worked on browsers previously (notable Safari), and was already a seasoned C/C++/ObjC developer. While one can cite many valid reasons for using a C language for a browser (and OS), I think his experience and preferences were likely a large part of it.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#108

Post by _flux »

daft_pink wrote: post #31

I think it’s just fantastic that the Ladybird browser is close to being usable. I was under the impression this was going to take many years before it became competitive.

I do wonder if it's the case of "90% of completeness takes 90% of time; the remaining 10% takes another 90%".

Though, I suppose even if true, it would still be a pretty good timeframe.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#109

Post by bangaladore »

mrweasel wrote: post #85
daft_pink wrote: post #31

I think it’s just fantastic that the Ladybird browser is close to being usable. I was under the impression this was going to take many years before it became competitive.

While I haven't tried it myself, I've seen a few of the monthly summaries videos. Passing the tests and being fast enough for daily usage is two very different things and right now Ladybird doesn't appear to be all that speedy. Still an amazing feat of development from the entire team.

I was going to say the same thing.

Why are the tests so disconnected from the usability? My assumption is the tests are closer to a unit test, while browsing a page is essentially an E2E test, and if anything in the pipeline goes wrong (especially given that we use complex JS everywhere) the result is essentially useless.

Re: Ladybird passes the Apple 90% threshold on web-platform-tests

#110

Post by GalaxyNova »

daft_pink wrote: post #31

I think it’s just fantastic that the Ladybird browser is close to being usable. I was under the impression this was going to take many years before it became competitive.

It really goes to show what a dedicated team can accomplish. Before Ladybird it was taken for granted that building an entirely new browser engine would take decades and people would laugh at you for even bringing it up.
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