Live data from Hacker News

Aerocart cargo gliders

aerolane.com

101–110 of 112 posts

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#101
post #86

I don't understand? "When towing Aerocarts, planes instantly double or triple their payload capacity. This is because their capacity is limited by the takeoff / landing weight – not what they can safely pull through the air." But later, on "How it works" section it is apparent that the main plane still has to tow the cart behind it when taking off. What's the trick that makes this work? Extra set of wings?

Yes, the wings of the glider provide lift that otherwise would not be present. The engines still need to produce more thrust to pull the glider but that's expected, the extra cargo doesn't come free.

That... kind of makes sense. But (the way I* see it) modern large aircraft aren't very overpowered (otherwise they would be less efficient), so their engine power is just a little bit above what's needed to get them into the air with a "usual" runway size in ~ the worst possible conditions ("hot & high"). Which means that they would need ~ double the runway length to take off with a glider in tow? So this works with the small aircraft they're currently testing with (they just have to use a longer runway), but if they want to extend it to larger cargo jets, they would risk exceeding the limitations of existing airport runways?

________

* - someone who has an interest in aviation, but no professional background or training therein

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#102
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please ELI5 winched gliding to me? Is a glider basically joinked into the air by a large and fast winch, and then detached and the glider glides on it's own "power" back to the landing? Or is the winch at the destination, with a cable going _all_ the way across the landscape to where the launch point is, so that it can pull the glider over? I'm a tad confused.

Winch launches are a lot like a kid with a kite. Run fast (wind in the winch) to get speed and up it goes. At its desired altitude, the glider disconnects and goes on its way. https://youtu.be/YePIJKs5me0 gives you an idea. On a day with a decent breeze, it is possible to "kite" a glider up to very high altitude by letting the wire out again. But this is highly frowned upon because it means there is a very long (and…

Thanks, I tried to look exactly this up, but couldn't find anything. Looking at that video, the only thing I could think of though was that cable, presumably detaching shortly after the video ended, and the cameraman is just standing there where the cable could presumably fall. It does not look very thick and heavy, but still!

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#103
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please ELI5 winched gliding to me? Is a glider basically joinked into the air by a large and fast winch, and then detached and the glider glides on it's own "power" back to the landing? Or is the winch at the destination, with a cable going _all_ the way across the landscape to where the launch point is, so that it can pull the glider over? I'm a tad confused.

You nailed it: the winch pulls the glider rapidly up to altitude, lets go, and the glider floats back down to earth.

Not sure why you are being downvoted, but thanks for the response nonetheless.

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#104
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You nailed it: the winch pulls the glider rapidly up to altitude, lets go, and the glider floats back down to earth.

Not sure why you are being downvoted, but thanks for the response nonetheless.

Hah, it wasn't a very meaningful response. It's OK for this community to have moderated my comment appropriately, especially given drpixie's much better answer! Yes, it's just like a kite!

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#105

This product is for towing behind another aircraft, but what about winch towing? A winched glider implements flight with renewable electricity and it does so efficiently because the power and motor never leave the ground! A glider can climb up to 5000 feet and travel 50x that before making a landing. Wouldn’t it be glorious to see cargo being autonomously slung from site to site across the world, powered entirely by…

I've done a few gliding flights. They were all towed to height by a powered aircraft and then released. Winch launch is an alternative to towing, but sounded like a fairly terrifying alternative where you were yoinked into the air by a huge winch. The terror isn't an issue if the glider is pilotless. But IIRC they used something like a 7 litre engine to winch an incredibly light glider. Presumably it would require so…

I did once fly as a guest with a winch start, and yes it is something. The ascend is pretty steep and the acceleration is powerful. The pilot did not find good lift and we had to land shortly after. My stomach did not like his curving around looking for lift, so I wasn't too unhappy about the short flight.

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#106
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Weight doesn't affect glide ratio" is one of these things I learned why taking flying lessons that still feels counterintuitive every time I read it. (Don't worry, reader, I never intended to get a pilot's license.)

I don't think it's completely true. Higher weight increases the speed at which the glide ratio is optimal, and drag (parasitic drag in particular, unrelated to generating lift) increases with the square of speed. Basically, flying faster wastes more energy. That effect is going to dominate at some point, probably about 120 km/h or so with a typical glider. At 200 km/h, the glide ratio is garbage (but it's fun). I hav…

Gliders utilize Laminar profiles, while airliners use turbulent profiles.

The Laminar profiles perform better, but only when uncontaminated (no bugs or rain). Contaminated turbulent profiles perform better than contaminated Laminar profiles. Since regulations state that you should carry fuel for the worst case scenario, it does not yet make sense to design airliners with Laminar profiles.

Naturally, manufacturers are looking for ways around this.

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#107

This product is for towing behind another aircraft, but what about winch towing? A winched glider implements flight with renewable electricity and it does so efficiently because the power and motor never leave the ground! A glider can climb up to 5000 feet and travel 50x that before making a landing. Wouldn’t it be glorious to see cargo being autonomously slung from site to site across the world, powered entirely by…

I've done a few gliding flights. They were all towed to height by a powered aircraft and then released. Winch launch is an alternative to towing, but sounded like a fairly terrifying alternative where you were yoinked into the air by a huge winch. The terror isn't an issue if the glider is pilotless. But IIRC they used something like a 7 litre engine to winch an incredibly light glider. Presumably it would require so…

I have done it. It's actually quite thrilling, feeling that initial burst of acceleration.

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#108
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winch launches are a lot like a kid with a kite. Run fast (wind in the winch) to get speed and up it goes. At its desired altitude, the glider disconnects and goes on its way. https://youtu.be/YePIJKs5me0 gives you an idea. On a day with a decent breeze, it is possible to "kite" a glider up to very high altitude by letting the wire out again. But this is highly frowned upon because it means there is a very long (and…

Thanks, I tried to look exactly this up, but couldn't find anything. Looking at that video, the only thing I could think of though was that cable, presumably detaching shortly after the video ended, and the cameraman is just standing there where the cable could presumably fall. It does not look very thick and heavy, but still!

Traditionally, winch cables are single strand steel (fencing) wire - I guess because that's cheap. But they break quite often.

Cable falls can be a problem. A cable falling over power lines causes all sorts of fuss!

Cable breaks can be terrible. The cable will spring back, whip around, and is incredibly destructive - hence the cage around the winch operator. I would not have been standing anywhere nearby and certainly not next-to or behind the drum.

Re: Aerocart cargo gliders

#109

Tow-plane pilot for gliders is a dangerous profession. A simple mistake by the glider pilot can kill the tow plane pilot, with not enough time to react. I saw this happen in person once ( https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/G... ). Gliders and towing them is neither easy nor safe.

What do we think we can do to make it all safer?
Post reply on HN