Live data from Hacker News

The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

theargumentmag.com

101–110 of 341 posts

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#101
Why does everyone talk about this part of the issue but never the other one? Society can’t progress if we can’t delegate the boring stuff and work on complicated stuff. How else will it progress?

Do you think we could have progressed to this level if we were still calculating stuff by hand? Log tables??

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#102

It's happened to me recently, I've relied so much on LLMs for coding and after hours of spinning the wheel, I realized, it has no idea, when it fixes something it's mostly a guess, most I've the time we're just debugging by adding logging statements and the code we've created looks crap and is mostly wrong, full of fluff, or hard to understand. I've been coding without my LLM for 2 hours and it's just more productive…

> the code we've created looks crap and is mostly wrong, full of fluff, or hard to understand I don't disagree in general but I've had a lot of success asking the LLMs to specifically fix these things and make things more maintainable when specifically prompted to do so. I agree debugging and getting things working it often needs supervision, guidance and advice. And architecture it often gets a little wrong and need…

It's not the article is about though, you're doing all this "engineering" to have success with the "AI". You're not really "depending on it", which is more in the spirit of the article and what I found myself starting to do. At some point you think , I'll either do it myself, or use "AI", at which point you will start to become dependent on it.

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#103
post #69
post #21

For an example of where this already happened, look at the number of people who literally don't have a minor inkling of how to plan a route or navigate without a GPS and mapping software. Sure, having a real-time data source is nice for avoiding construction/traffic, and I'd use a real-time map, but going beyond that to be spoon fed your next action over and over leads to dependency.

I don’t have an inkling of how to navigate. I don’t really see the problem.

I just can't comprehend how people can accept that. I mean sure you can use your handheld computer, but when I wouldn't know where I am and what I need to do to go to where I intend to be, I would feel very alone, lost and abandoned, like being Napoleon on Elba. In a completely foreign city, often I just look at a map before the journey for the general direction and then just keep running, without thinking much. That works quite well, because street design is actually logical and where it isn't there are signs. I'm surprised that you often wouldn't even need a map; because you just need to look at the signs, they will tell you.

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#104
post #55
post #8

This is already happening. In spite of all of the disclaimers that the AI make mistakes the fact that it is given higher billing in for instance google search results (but also lots of other similar places) means people will interpret it as having a higher reputation because that's how we were conditioned to consume search results. This is doing massive damage already, for instance, essay writing, making summaries, r…

School will have to rely on homework less. It ia nkt that deep or complicated. It does not require super radical reform. Ypu can still make the tests and exams checking what students know. There will be less "generate bs at home" tasks and more "come back with a knowledge" which will likely be an improvement.

> "generate bs at home" vs. "come back with a knowledge"

They are the same picture!

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#105
post #91
post #85

Atrophy has really been an issue in my recent hiring cycles for good senior engineers. 80% of senior candidates I interview now aren’t able to do junior level tasks without GenAI helping them. We’ve had to start doing more coding tests to weed their skill set out as a result, and I try and make my coding tests as indicative of our real work as possible and the work they current do. But these people are struggling to…

I was actually thinking about this the other day while vibe coding for a side project. I am a lead engineer, but I’ve been using AI in much of my code recently. If you were to ask me to code anything manually right now, I could do it, but it would take a bit to acclimate to writing code line by line. By “a while”, I mean maybe a few days. Which means that if we were to do a coding interview without LLMs, I would prob…

[deleted]

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#106
post #80

Can’t say the author’s fixation on reading long texts resonates with me. I’m sure Newton’s Principia is interesting and all but… no I’m not going to read that. Conciseness is a valuable thing. It wasn’t practical to convey knowledge in a short form previously because printing and distributing a blog post worth of info was too expensive. On some level long form content just seems… poorly written. It’s long for the sak…

> Can’t say the author’s fixation on reading long texts resonates with me

It’s an attention and working memory test.

I don’t think I’ve ever prided myself on focus. But signing off social media ten years ago has absolutely left me in a competitive place when it comes to deep thinking, and that’s not because I’ve gotten better at it.

> It wasn’t practical to convey knowledge in a short form previously because printing and distributing a blog post worth of info was too expensive

This is entirely ahistoric. Pamphlets and books published in volumes, where each volume would today be a chapter, was the norm. The novel is a modern invention.

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#107
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pair a senior with an agent LLM, pair a junior with an agent LLM, measure the output over some cycles. You will find your answer in the data, one way or another.

Truthfully, in my experience, they both end up performing near the level of the LLM. It’s an averaging factor not an uplifting one.

Right now we are seeing junior hiring fall off a cliff, whether or not LLMs are responsible is hard to say. But if it does turn out that everyone performs to the level of the LLM, then a vast amount of business dollars can be saved by hiring starving English majors exclusively and dispensing with STEM majors altogether.

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#108
The race for AI, running over anything and anyone that stands between an AI and resources like energy, water, etc, combined with corporations shoving AI, unasked for, into anything and everything will ensure everyone hates everything about AI, except for the Ponzi scheme winners like Altman.

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#109
This seems like the age old discussion of how new technology changes our lives and makes us "lazy".

Before the advent of smartphones people needed to remember phone numbers and calculate on the fly. Now people don't even remember their own numbers and save it on somewhere and open the calculator app for smallest of things.

But there are still people who can do both. They are not luddites rather not fully reliant on smartphones.

Same thing is going to happen with LLMs.

At some point restricting LLM usage is going to be considered good parenting just like restricting phones are today. Use it for some purpose but not all.

Re: The deadline isn't when AI outsmarts us – it's when we stop using our own minds

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It fulfills steve jobs promise that a computer is a bicycle for your mind. It is crazy to me that all these poeple think they are going to lose their ability to think. If you didn't lose your ability to think to scrolling social media then you aren't going to lose it to AI. However, I think a lot of people lost their ability to think by scrolling social media and that is problematic. What people need to realize is th…

1. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255603105_The_Effec... 2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25509828/ 3. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/392560878_Your_Brai... I’m pretty convinced it should be used to do things humans can’t do instead of things humans can do well with practice. However, I’m also convinced that Capital will always rely on Labor to use it on their behalf.

I don't think that a couple papers counts for much of anything. A couple scientific articles form an opinion about a topic. The evidence shown in those papers are certainly something to think about, but there hasn't been enough time or effort put into the use of understanding how AI technologies aide technical work and the ability to solve more complex problems to make some sort of suggested claim that it is inherently bad.

Compare this body of work to the body of work that has consistently showed social media is bad for you and has done so for many years. You will see a difference. Or if you prefer to focus on something more physical, anthropogenic climate change, the evidence for the standard model of particle physics, the evidence for plate tectonics, etc.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be skeptical that these technologies might make us lazy or inable to perform critical functions of technical work. I think there is a great danger that these technologies essentially fulfill the promise of data science across industries, that is, a completely individualized experience to guide your choices across digital environments. That is not the world that I want to live in. But, I also don't think that my mind is turning to mush because I asked Claude Code to write some code to make a catboost model that would have taken me a few hours to try out some idea.

Post reply on HN