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Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

toyotatimes.jp

101–110 of 115 posts

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#101
post #64

Tangent but I have a 2016 Toyota 4Runner. Great car and fits my family and needs perfectly. The key fob broke so I needed to get a replacement, I got a blank and had a locksmith cut and program the blank. He must have not done it right because it worked and then I got stranded cause it must have lost its pair to the car or something. Nothing wrong with the vehicle, the engine wouldn’t start because of the key. I do r…

Get ready for key subscriptions!

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#102
post #70
post #64

Tangent but I have a 2016 Toyota 4Runner. Great car and fits my family and needs perfectly. The key fob broke so I needed to get a replacement, I got a blank and had a locksmith cut and program the blank. He must have not done it right because it worked and then I got stranded cause it must have lost its pair to the car or something. Nothing wrong with the vehicle, the engine wouldn’t start because of the key. I do r…

If you even rarely get into situations you describe, saving on a freakin' key fob and not going via official dealership is supremely... not smart. What you describe would be exactly reason #1 I would immediately say to anybody on topic of why not saving desperately on such a thing, despite never being in such situation myself. Sometimes learning from other's mistakes should be enough. No, mostly it should be enough.

Difficulty: dealership replacement keys are like $500/each believe it or not.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#103

That's great, but the writing is still on the wall if Toyota doesn't get serious about electric cars. With their current trajectory Toyota is headed at 1000mph directly towards being the next Blackberry, Kodak, Nokia or Blockbuster. I say this as someone who owned a Prius for 10 years and loved it, and have also driven their hydrogen car. The BZ4X is badly named overpriced garbage, not enough and not good enough. The…

Why make electric cars when you can bribe politicians to tax EVs and promote hybrids?

Hybrids sell better.

Toyota sells more cars than any other automaker. 2023 was a record sales year for Toyota. 2025 is looking like it will be another record year for them:

https://www.autoblog.com/news/nearly-900000-cars-sold-toyota...

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Security researchers who do something like test the security of a car without the permission of the car manufacturer (like in this post) are committing a felony. citation needed

> No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work Source: DMCA: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 I'm sure that spending a few hundred thousand dollars on lawyers might find a legal loophole, but I wouldn't count on it. Why is it illegal to break the encryption of video game consoles? Whatever the answer is, the same can be applied to breaking the encryption…

It's not clear DMCA applies in this setting. I'm neither a lawyer nor a "hacker", but reading through the whole page you linked I can't figure out what part implies cars are covered? If they were, then it seems like it would put mechanics at best in a gray area.

  > Why is it illegal to break the encryption of video game consoles? 
Is it? I know it is illegal to strip a game and upload it to the internet. But is it illegal to save your own digital copy? I was under the impression that this violates terms of use, but isn't illegal. That the legality was focused around distribution.

IIRC Sony lost that court case where the Navy turned their Playstations into a supercomputer.

I'm not trying to argue, but I'm trying to state my understanding so someone can better help me understand. I really do want to know how many crimes I've committed lol

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#105

That's great, but the writing is still on the wall if Toyota doesn't get serious about electric cars. With their current trajectory Toyota is headed at 1000mph directly towards being the next Blackberry, Kodak, Nokia or Blockbuster. I say this as someone who owned a Prius for 10 years and loved it, and have also driven their hydrogen car. The BZ4X is badly named overpriced garbage, not enough and not good enough. The…

> That's great, but the writing is still on the wall if Toyota doesn't get serious about electric cars.

This sentiment doesn't match the practical reality. Toyota is the best selling automaker in the world.

In 2011 Toyota sold 7.9 million cars. In 2023 Toyota sold 11.2 million, a record sales year. It looks like 2025 might set a new sales record for Toyota:

https://www.autoblog.com/news/nearly-900000-cars-sold-toyota...

Toyota isn't getting the car business wrong. Toyota is getting it right.

BEVs will make up a greater percentage of Toyota's sales as time goes on. The notion Toyota somehow doesn't understand the car business is just false.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Security researchers who do something like test the security of a car without the permission of the car manufacturer (like in this post) are committing a felony. citation needed

> No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work Source: DMCA: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 I'm sure that spending a few hundred thousand dollars on lawyers might find a legal loophole, but I wouldn't count on it. Why is it illegal to break the encryption of video game consoles? Whatever the answer is, the same can be applied to breaking the encryption…

It would need to be handle significantly different from lock picking, which is legal. I assume one could craft an argument to shove DMCA in it, but that doesn't sound clear cut.

To your point, would most researchers want to spend lawyer money to test that ? Surely not.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work Source: DMCA: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 I'm sure that spending a few hundred thousand dollars on lawyers might find a legal loophole, but I wouldn't count on it. Why is it illegal to break the encryption of video game consoles? Whatever the answer is, the same can be applied to breaking the encryption…

It would need to be handle significantly different from lock picking, which is legal. I assume one could craft an argument to shove DMCA in it, but that doesn't sound clear cut. To your point, would most researchers want to spend lawyer money to test that ? Surely not.

I'm also saying the law doesn't matter to an extent.

Remember this? https://www.vice.com/en/article/this-is-the-hacking-investig...

A reporter pressed F12 to view the source of a web page and the Missouri governor spent months trying to charge him with a crime as part of a "felony investigation". Full weight of the state on his shoulders because he revealed something embarrassing about the state.

In practice if you embarrass a company, they will crush you legally. And sure, after you spend a few hundred thousand dollars on legal fees you'll probably win, and the company will have to say "our bad lol", but you'll still be out the legal fees.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#108

That's great, but the writing is still on the wall if Toyota doesn't get serious about electric cars. With their current trajectory Toyota is headed at 1000mph directly towards being the next Blackberry, Kodak, Nokia or Blockbuster. I say this as someone who owned a Prius for 10 years and loved it, and have also driven their hydrogen car. The BZ4X is badly named overpriced garbage, not enough and not good enough. The…

It's weird right? I get that Nokia honestly couldn't see it coming, it was basically the first in recent history. Too much too fast, RIM included. But all the bigwigs currently in Toyota are the age to have seen and lived that transition. It's not like they're new to battery tech. And they say - wow look at that... nah, let's build hydrogen.

> nah, let's build hydrogen.

No, they're saying let's build cars. Because Toyota has been building hybrids for so long they already meet the fleet emissions standards they need to meet. There's no pressure on them to rapidly switch to BEVs.

BEVs will make up a greater percentage of Toyota's sales as time goes on. In the meantime, Toyota is perfectly happy setting company sales records.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#109
post #64

Tangent but I have a 2016 Toyota 4Runner. Great car and fits my family and needs perfectly. The key fob broke so I needed to get a replacement, I got a blank and had a locksmith cut and program the blank. He must have not done it right because it worked and then I got stranded cause it must have lost its pair to the car or something. Nothing wrong with the vehicle, the engine wouldn’t start because of the key. I do r…

Get ready for key subscriptions!

Please connect to the internet to start your car

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#110

My brother had his car (a sleek AUDI) stolen in front of his house. He left the key in the entry hall, and someone extended the range. Are current electronics (the consumer ones) good enough at scale to limit the time the round-trip car-key-car takes?

How does that work? Once they have driven 100m what happens?

They can keep driving until they switch the car off. Some systems switch off gradually after a longer way.

There are two main reasons for that. Over use that if your key dies, you do not want your car to stop immediately, this is not safe. The second one is carjacking: you want the thieves to have a useless car further from you (that one is I belive just a collateral or a secon thought)

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