The collapse of the econ PhD job market • Hacker News Board

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#101

Post by gjsman-1000 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:53 PM UTC

bonsai_spool wrote: post #99

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher education pissed off half of customers in their quest for moral purity, at the same time as birth rate decline post-2008 began hitting, while raising prices +93% on average since 2008. That's not a great way to survive.

> pissed off half of customers in their quest for moral purity I'm not sure what 'half' means here. It's neither true that men make up half of applicants (which are really what we should be focusing on), nor that so-called 'conservatives' make up half of this population.

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Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#102

Post by Workaccount2 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:53 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #76

The "Dismal Science"? It has never been a science. You can't run controlled experiments outside of small microeconomic scenarios, so nothing is falsifiable or repeatable. It's all just arguing about correlation and causation.

This is like saying meteorology is not a science.

I'm sure you believe in climate change, and climatology is even more removed than meteorology...

I've consistently found that people talking about the unscientific nature of economics are actually just upset with what it says, similar to people who are upset with what climatology says.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#103

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:53 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #46

I watched a video by Gary Stevenson the other day and it sheds light on our current issues. He was a trader for Citibank and for awhile their highest paid trader. He essentially made a fortune (mostly for the bank but also for himself) by betting that after the 2008 GFC inequality would only increase, that we wouldn't go back to "normal". He says that the best economists in the world are traders. Why? Because they ha…

> He says that the best economists in the world are traders. Why? Because they have this big number over their head, their profit and loss ("P&L") that everyone at the bank can see. It also defines their bonus.

This is kinda like the difference between climate science vs. weather forecasting. Being good at making short-term returns without giving a shit about the long-term damage it does is not the same as economic policy.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#104

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:54 PM UTC

cjbgkagh wrote: post #18

mothballed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tends to go the other way around; politicians and academia pick economists that favor the way they'd like economics to be managed. Consider that Ludwig Von Mises, one of the most famous economists never held a tenure track position. And Milton Friedman won a nobel prize, including a study of monetary history that damned the fed for helping bring on the great depression -- later nobel prize to Bernanke for works th…

My sampling of my interactions with young PhD economists is that they were all Neo-Keynesian, the only people I’ve met who are of the Austrian school were Engineers. I don’t doubt that the economics profession has been shaped by politics but it appears they are and have been rather willing participants.

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Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#105

Post by smallmancontrov » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:55 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #93

reactordev wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more aggressive than that. It’s an intentional dismantling of higher education overall.

Higher education pissed off half of customers in their quest for moral purity, at the same time as birth rate decline post-2008 began hitting, while raising prices +93% on average since 2008. That's not a great way to survive.

Academia didn't choose trickle-down policy. Quite the opposite -- that was you guys, after you purged all the leftist economists in the McCarthy era. In fact, the think-tank driven economics departments of recent years are so notoriously to the right of most academic faculty that this is a point of frequent conflict.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#106

Post by bonsai_spool » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:55 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #101

bonsai_spool wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pissed off half of customers in their quest for moral purity I'm not sure what 'half' means here. It's neither true that men make up half of applicants (which are really what we should be focusing on), nor that so-called 'conservatives' make up half of this population.

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> There it is; the quest for moral purity continues.

I am neither a university nor 'academia'.

I am, however, still unclear about what your point is.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#107

Post by colechristensen » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:57 PM UTC

gbacon wrote: post #83

pempem wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some long horizon impact. Really just wildly unfortunate to see a disruption that feels unique. It's not due to war, even if academics could 'flee' to another institution, its a discarding of the prioritization of knowledge generation. The thing humanity has been built on.

This seems like a broad overgeneralization unless you believe zero fat in grad schools is available for trimming.

The sources of university funding and spending on administration has been broken for a long time.

What does a graduate math program need? A building with some offices and classrooms, wifi, email service, maybe a couple of secretaries and janitors, office supplies, and salaries for students and researchers/instructors.

What need does a math program have for any but the most basic administration? That's where all the money is going, where the biggest growth in spending is going.

You could cut university admin costs by 75% and lose nothing. Start with the top 25 university presidents who all earn a slightly rounded up 2 million a year and more.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#108

Post by Arainach » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 7:00 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #93

reactordev wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more aggressive than that. It’s an intentional dismantling of higher education overall.

Higher education pissed off half of customers in their quest for moral purity, at the same time as birth rate decline post-2008 began hitting, while raising prices +93% on average since 2008. That's not a great way to survive.

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Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#109

Post by kadushka » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 7:01 PM UTC

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #71

pempem wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some long horizon impact. Really just wildly unfortunate to see a disruption that feels unique. It's not due to war, even if academics could 'flee' to another institution, its a discarding of the prioritization of knowledge generation. The thing humanity has been built on.

Anecdotally I have heard similar things from top tier institutions in the US as well. They are all in recession mode basically and actively cutting classes, staff, and lecturers. This all started when the govt began withholding federal funding in an attempt to clamp down on campus protests

I hope they're cutting their bloated administration departments before cutting classes and lecturers, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#110

Post by paulpauper » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 7:01 PM UTC

complex_pi wrote: post #34

Welcome to the world. A PhD guarantees nothing, tenured position barely exist anymore. Weird that economists did not realize this yet...

agree. All job markets are 'bad'. The number of openings is greatly exceeded by people applying. this is true for pretty much everything.