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Don't avoid workplace politics

terriblesoftware.org

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Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#101

Post by rkomorn »

dfjfklei wrote: post #94
rkomorn wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's their point. I think their point is that you can have influence without doing these things.

Then I was misunderstood as well. As if anyone, myself included, would suggest that my listed items are the only way to influence your employer is a hilariously bad faith read. I take issue with TFA framing the problem of people saying they hate "employment politics" as a you problem when I am of the opinion it is a leadership problem. Bad leaders fail to, or refuse to, see the things I listed as "bad politics". Just…

I think you were misunderstood as well, yes.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#102

Post by Magi604 »

"Politics is just how humans coordinate in groups. It’s the invisible network of relationships, influence, and informal power that exists in every organization. You can refuse to participate, but that doesn’t make it go away. It just means decisions get made without you."

This is how I feel, and this is what I tell people when they don't want to get involved in the organization's politics.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#103

Post by rkomorn »

hchdifnfbgbf wrote: post #61
dfjfklei wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has employment politics ever meant "leveling up in soft skills"? Employment politics has always meant: brown nosing, throwing vulnerable people under the bus, posturing, taking credit for other people's contributions, blaming other people for your failures, and on and on. Or to use the language of TFA, "iNfLUeNcE".

If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills. Certainly the things you’re talking about are real, and particularly severe in some environments, but there’s a lot of room to improve your influence without engaging in any of that.

> If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills.

Not OP but I honestly don't see how this comment/tone is warranted in response to what they wrote.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#104

Post by hchdifnfbgbf »

dfjfklei wrote: post #71
hchdifnfbgbf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills. Certainly the things you’re talking about are real, and particularly severe in some environments, but there’s a lot of room to improve your influence without engaging in any of that.

You have yet to meet someone at a company you work for you who does one or more of the things I listed above to successfully advance their career?

Many do. More common the further up the ladder you get. But I’ve been able to gain enough influence to affect most of the things I care about without engaging in that, unless you consider being friendly and supportive (something that did not come remotely naturally to me) to be brown-nosing.

If you want to significantly influence a lot of high-level strategic decision-making at very large companies, then you do probably need to engage in nasty things like that. But most of us don’t work at that scope.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#105

Post by rkomorn »

BeetleB wrote: post #99
rkomorn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's also the only way I'm used to hearing it. Hearing about "politics" in a neutral/positive way would be new to me.

> I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's just a difference in framing between winners and losers. If you get your way, you say it was due to influence, bridge building, teamwork, etc. If you don't, you say "politics". For every occasion someone says "politics" negatively, realize the other party is using the other framing. More importantly: For every time you get your way,…

I think that's a very valid take, actually.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#106

Post by awkwabear »

This is what I always try to emphasize to the junior guys I've worked with. I read the book Flowers for Algernon when I was younger and it was the thing that stood out to me the most.

It does not matter how right you are if no one likes or will listen to you. Unfortunately, being likeable is inifinitely more important than being right. Your job is to strike a balance between both otherwise stupid likeable people will be dictating the direction.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#107

Post by dizlexic »

I find being outspoken is a great way to be heard and visible, but if I'm being honest my entire personality is confrontational.

I share my opinions, accomplishments, and (most importantly) my failures. This tends to make me a default leader in conversations, and I try really hard not to be overbearing.

ADHD + outspoken = confrontational / obnoxious.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#108

Post by garciasn »

circlefavshape wrote: post #97
garciasn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article is great, in theory; it just NEVER works this way in practice, unless you may be in a technical organization. There are ALWAYS business reasons that cause technical projects to fail. We regularly see the articles about the failure rate of technical projects all the time on the front page. Why is this? Because the number and weight of the business folk almost always outnumber the technical. You can…

> There are ALWAYS business reasons that cause technical projects to fail So it's always business folks' fault, and never the nerds' fault? My experience has been different (full disclosure - professional nerd for 30 years)

I appreciate you replying. My intent was never to place blame; instead, it was to point out that while the article's author suggests technical folks need to play the game better, I feel that it won't matter and getting the rest of a non-technical-first org along for the ride is more difficult than just being a solid political player.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#109

Post by dang »

daft_pink wrote: post #4

Should be titled Stop Avoiding Workplace Politics? It’s not a discussion of the toxic political environment we live in today.

We put workplace politics in the title above, and also switched from the baity "Stop avoiding" to a more representative phrase from the article.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#110

Post by brk »

scarface_74 wrote: post #75
rossdavidh wrote: post #24

"Think about the last time a terrible technical decision got pushed through at your company. Maybe it was adopting some overcomplicated architecture, or choosing a vendor that everyone knew was wrong, or killing a project that was actually working. I bet if you dig into what happened, you’ll find it wasn’t because the decision-makers were stupid. It’s because the people with the right information weren’t in the room.…

I as a self interested actor as we all are see nothing wrong with: 1) Since around 2008 I’ve had 8 jobs after staying at my second job for nine years. Whether I was laid off or chose to get another job because of salary compression and inversion, being able to get a job quickly - and it’s never taken me more than a month even in 2023 and last year - was partially because at now 51, I have made damn sure I stay up to…

This guy businesses.

Big decisions are almost always made on factors that are more relationship based than technical based at the end of the day.

Many highly technical people despise management, MBAs, and anything in that orbit. This is understandable, but leads to a lot of frustration.

If you truly want to guide major decisions you are going to be more effective at the top of the stack than the bottom. Every tier has trade offs, and you are almost always having to sell some part of your soul to truly move up.

Like it or not, most technical companies these days are managed to short terms goals and payouts. The C Suite, investors, etc are all just there for a payday. The actual product or anything else is just a detail in the goal of collecting commas. If you recognize this, you have a better chance of managing your own expectations at whatever level you are in the org. If you spend your time fighting for something that is not truly the goal of the company you will tend to have a bad time overall.

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