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Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

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Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#101

Post by buran77 »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #75
buran77 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the intention of this administration. Destroy any service that the government could provide until people can genuinely think the government is useless. Then the people currently in power and their cronies will come out of the woodwork "saving" the country with their private companies and interests. Competing with an empty shell of a government is the easiest way. As a side effect, if they're to lose the next e…

>>> That's the intention of this administration. Destroy any service that the government could provide until people can genuinely think the government is useless. Not really sure ANY government service runs well. There are maybe one or two but as a whole government run anything never seems to be done well or at a decent cost. Just scan the comments about the massive overspending and poor service we already get as tax…

> Not really sure ANY government service runs well

I don't think you have perspective on that. What I'm telling you is that it can be a lot worse. I don't think you realize how much less accountable any private company is and that if you are ever ruled by one you will effectively be under a very abusive dictatorship, for all intents and purposes.

Random example. Google can cut you off from everything Google related and then some (identity, data, purchases, anything external that was linked to Google identity, etc.) with no recourse or justification. How often does the Government do that to you?

It's very easy to complaint when you've never seen the worse alternatives. How many people alive in US today do you think have even lived under them?

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#103

Post by ethbr1 »

rayiner wrote: post #90
txru wrote: post #70

There are two elements of this situation that I'm consistently trying to open-mindedly hold in balance. One part is what I call "The Great Defederalization". In a myriad of ways, the federal state that was erected between FDR and LBJ is being torn down. That state existed on a group of decisions that allowed independent agencies outside of the direct oversight of the president: the Humphrey's Executor agencies, NLRB,…

The first point requires an additional layer. The modern administrative state has its origins in Woodrow Wilson ideology of scientific governance. Wilson didn’t like democracy and wasn’t much of a fan of the constitution: https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/the-study-of-ad... . A consequence of centralizing governance in a giant federal bureaucracy is that it’s become dominated by one party: https://www.gove…

It's also important to highlight the origins of modern US civil service (read: the Wilson+ era you're referencing) in the anti-Conkling/spoils Congressional factions and presidents of the late 19th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Breeds_(politics)#Setback...

As recently as 1880s the US was still assigning important civil service roles to whomever donated the most money to election campaigns.

The 1880s - 1970s generally featured a more protected civil service, with both advantages (insulation from changing presidents / legislators, maintaining institutional knowledge and competence) and disadvantages (insulation from performance-based hiring / firing, optimizing for bureaucratic rules became more effective than doing a great job).

The latter of which and anti-government sentiment post-Nixon drove deregulation and more direct executive control of the bureaucracy (e.g. the OPM).

As with all pendulums, we're now again seeing the excesses of affording too much power to the presidency (firing institutional knowledge because their role/expertise isn't currently politically en vogue).

Hopefully post-Trump this will spur reinforcing and insulation of civil service expertise.

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#104

Post by rayiner »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #89
rayiner wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By “better” you mean “more consistent with what I want,” right? Because your average Trump voter voted for the guy who had Elon get on stage with a chainsaw.

> By “better” you mean “more consistent with what I want,” right? Because your average Trump voter voted for the guy who had Elon get on stage with a chainsaw. Do they want healthcare? Because I want Medicare for All (affordable, accessible, universal healthcare), and large swaths of conservative and rural America are going to lose their ~700 hospitals and Medicaid coverage (50% of rural births are paid for by Medica…

Trump supporters are voting the same way as you—for the kind of country they want to live in, not just narrowly on policies to benefit themselves personally. But they think that their policies will achieve that, while your policies will just direct more taxpayer dollars to the layers of government and NGO employees who never manage to fix any of the problems they’re tasked with fixing.

I want your average Democrat to grow up with the privileges I had: a household with two married parents, an upbringing that emphasized hard work and resilience and discouraged ethnic identity or solidarity, a school where everyone speaks English and nobody belongs to a gang, a society with a safety net but without long term dependence on the government, etc. I think these things will make the country better for you, not just for me. Look at Mormons: they’re happy, healthy (the longest lived people in the country besides asians), and upwardly mobile. I want that for Baltimore!

I have empathy too! I lived in downtown Baltimore and saw that extensive social programs mostly go to funding middle class lifestyles for government workers and NGO employees. I think the people in Baltimore would be better off if they had the rigid social infrastructure they have in Utah rather than spending more money on programs that never seem to work.

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#105

Post by txru »

rayiner wrote: post #90
txru wrote: post #70

There are two elements of this situation that I'm consistently trying to open-mindedly hold in balance. One part is what I call "The Great Defederalization". In a myriad of ways, the federal state that was erected between FDR and LBJ is being torn down. That state existed on a group of decisions that allowed independent agencies outside of the direct oversight of the president: the Humphrey's Executor agencies, NLRB,…

The first point requires an additional layer. The modern administrative state has its origins in Woodrow Wilson ideology of scientific governance. Wilson didn’t like democracy and wasn’t much of a fan of the constitution: https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/the-study-of-ad... . A consequence of centralizing governance in a giant federal bureaucracy is that it’s become dominated by one party: https://www.gove…

> then it’s completely unsurprising it will become dominated by the party that prefers bigger government.

I think you've assumed the conclusion here. One could equally say that if one party becomes overrepresented by people with higher education, that party will become overrepresented in any administrative position.

> Aaron Burr

I find myself more and more often in the position of having to look back many decades for precedent of things that are currently happening. Again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. But the variance of what to expect is wider, and I think it's fair to cast out one's net of expectations wider, and possibly darker.

Burr was a complicated man, doing complicated things, in a newly defined nation that was still defining norms. His trial was no stellar example of how to find truth and remonstrate wrongdoing. And I agree, "Lying to a federal officer" is absolutely ripe for misuse. A critical component of any subjective human system is integrity and adherence to justice. I don't think many people will look at Comey's prosecution and see it as the clear-headed and honest pursuit of justice.

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#106

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #104
toomuchtodo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By “better” you mean “more consistent with what I want,” right? Because your average Trump voter voted for the guy who had Elon get on stage with a chainsaw. Do they want healthcare? Because I want Medicare for All (affordable, accessible, universal healthcare), and large swaths of conservative and rural America are going to lose their ~700 hospitals and Medicaid coverage (50% of rural births are paid for by Medica…

Trump supporters are voting the same way as you—for the kind of country they want to live in, not just narrowly on policies to benefit themselves personally. But they think that their policies will achieve that, while your policies will just direct more taxpayer dollars to the layers of government and NGO employees who never manage to fix any of the problems they’re tasked with fixing. I want your average Democrat to…

[deleted]

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#107

Post by toomuchtodo »

rayiner wrote: post #104
toomuchtodo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By “better” you mean “more consistent with what I want,” right? Because your average Trump voter voted for the guy who had Elon get on stage with a chainsaw. Do they want healthcare? Because I want Medicare for All (affordable, accessible, universal healthcare), and large swaths of conservative and rural America are going to lose their ~700 hospitals and Medicaid coverage (50% of rural births are paid for by Medica…

Trump supporters are voting the same way as you—for the kind of country they want to live in, not just narrowly on policies to benefit themselves personally. But they think that their policies will achieve that, while your policies will just direct more taxpayer dollars to the layers of government and NGO employees who never manage to fix any of the problems they’re tasked with fixing. I want your average Democrat to…

Best of luck to them.

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#108

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

morcus wrote: post #97
rayiner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an ulterior motive for these cuts, but please be honest about what it is. The federal bureaucracy is completely dominated by one party: https://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/2016/10/federal-employe... . No matter who wins the elections, most of the actual decisions are being made by adherents of the same party. Trump had four times the support in AOC’s district in the Bronx than among federal employee donors.…

Is this DEI for Trump supporters?

It's Unity, Exclusion, and Incompetence. UEI is perfectly suited to Trump supporters.

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#109

Post by timr »

SR2Z wrote: post #99
timr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's less than it seems though, given that the US population has grown with over 0.7% per year for most of those years. So what? Why does government have to grow proportionally with the size of the population? This is not a given in any other organization.

You generally expect the size of an organization to scale with the scope of its activities, especially if its activities include "healthcare" and "building roads."

"Scope of activities", maybe, but there's no inherent reason that has to be equal the rate of growth in the population. You'd hope that government becomes more efficient over time.

Private organizations have profit constraints, and they're constantly striving to become more efficient, cut what doesn't work, and so on. Government has no such constraint.

Re: Largest Mass Resignation in US History as 100k Federal Workers Quit

#110

Post by naabb »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #51
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed ICE's budget lately?

I find the constant equating of illegal immigrants with Jews who lived legally in Germany for many generations and who had done nothing illegal or wrong at all very disturbing. It minimizes what happened there.

You're saying that ICE only targets illegal immigrants? how do they know who's an illegal immigrant? skin colour? Because that's the criteria they're applying right now.

Also what do you say about ICE detaining legal residents? you stated "equating illegal immigrants with Jews [...]" as if ICE is only detaining illegal immigrants. They're not. They're detaining anyone who isn't white enough. Members of the Trump regime have also threatened to deport legal citizens who are just exercicing their free speech. You're anti free speech as well?

When is your moral framework going to kick in and call a spade a spade?

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