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An opinionated critique of Duolingo

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Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#101

Post by mtalantikite »

bunderbunder wrote: post #85
mithr wrote: post #75

I agree with some aspects, and think the author perhaps misunderstood some others. > If I collect 100 XP, what does it mean for my language skills? For that matter, why do I collect extra XP when I receive a potion? Can the XP I collect be used in a way to carefully guide me towards the specific language skills I would explore next? Using XP to guide the user towards a particular path is an idea, but it's just not on…

By contrast, when I was studying Spanish using something more similar to the Assimil method, I was reading full length novels and watching Yo Soy Betty, La Fea within about six months. It's not just me. There's been some research on this sort of thing, and it tends to find that just about the only thing that's slower than Duolingo is traditional classroom language education. Admittedly I was doing more than 10 minute…

Yeah, same for me using Assimil for French (along with a few other tools). Six months in I could read L'Étranger in French.

My next project once I can pass the C1 test is to use their French -> Spanish course. I kind of recommend them to anyone that will listen, as their method worked really well for me.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#102

Post by jmkni »

mtalantikite wrote: post #87

I think the thing I dislike about Duolingo is it sort of catches the casual person into a trap by misleading them into thinking that by using this app they'll learn another language. It's not that it's a bad app, it's just that that's not going to happen. There's no one resource that will get you to even an intermediate level in a language. And the State Department's FSI estimates are unfortunately pretty accurate fo…

So what's the hack? I'm guessing there isn't one?

Asking as it's "hacker news" after all, I remember reading how North Korean agents would watch shows like Friends for hours on end to become familiar with English, is that a hack?

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#103

Post by qingcharles »

jmkni wrote: post #102
mtalantikite wrote: post #87

I think the thing I dislike about Duolingo is it sort of catches the casual person into a trap by misleading them into thinking that by using this app they'll learn another language. It's not that it's a bad app, it's just that that's not going to happen. There's no one resource that will get you to even an intermediate level in a language. And the State Department's FSI estimates are unfortunately pretty accurate fo…

So what's the hack? I'm guessing there isn't one? Asking as it's "hacker news" after all, I remember reading how North Korean agents would watch shows like Friends for hours on end to become familiar with English, is that a hack?

I have Dutch friends who swear they learned all their English simply by watching Friends on BBC in the Netherlands.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#104

Post by amatecha »

jimbokun wrote: post #92
duothrowaway99 wrote: post #25

Both of my parents are teachers of a European language. They both have phd's in linguistics, and rate very highly with students (who basically adore them). All of this context to say that not once has anyone using Duolingo been able to "test out" of the first ("101") class that they teach. Duolingo self-learners come in with a very unequal mix of vocabulary and... not much else. Unable to use declension properly [0],…

> spend time in a country where the language is spoken and force themselves into situations where they "have" to speak, etc. In the end this is the only one that matters. You can do things before going to that country that will help. But you'll never be close to fluent without taking that final step.

For real. My French always skyrockets every time I take any vacation to France, even for a week. After just one day I'm back to being able to understand a lot of what people are saying and respond pretty comfortably. It's also surprising how quickly the words come back to me after having been away for a year or whatever, with minimal practice between.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#105

Post by amatecha »

gs17 wrote: post #13
creaktive wrote: post #7

Like I always say to my friends & family who are complaining about Duolingo not really teaching anything: it beats doomscrolling, what else do you want?

That's a very, very low bar though.

Yeah, that's a ridiculously low bar for something that costs like $150/year, for that matter.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#106

Post by qingcharles »

mtalantikite wrote: post #87

I think the thing I dislike about Duolingo is it sort of catches the casual person into a trap by misleading them into thinking that by using this app they'll learn another language. It's not that it's a bad app, it's just that that's not going to happen. There's no one resource that will get you to even an intermediate level in a language. And the State Department's FSI estimates are unfortunately pretty accurate fo…

Lord have mercy. All the languages I'm learning are:

> Category IV Languages – “Super-hard languages” – Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#107

Post by wizardforhire »

jmkni wrote: post #102
mtalantikite wrote: post #87

I think the thing I dislike about Duolingo is it sort of catches the casual person into a trap by misleading them into thinking that by using this app they'll learn another language. It's not that it's a bad app, it's just that that's not going to happen. There's no one resource that will get you to even an intermediate level in a language. And the State Department's FSI estimates are unfortunately pretty accurate fo…

So what's the hack? I'm guessing there isn't one? Asking as it's "hacker news" after all, I remember reading how North Korean agents would watch shows like Friends for hours on end to become familiar with English, is that a hack?

Probably traveling to the local and living there.. ie full immersion. If I were to wager and riff off ya ;)

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#108

Post by nemomarx »

jmkni wrote: post #102
mtalantikite wrote: post #87

I think the thing I dislike about Duolingo is it sort of catches the casual person into a trap by misleading them into thinking that by using this app they'll learn another language. It's not that it's a bad app, it's just that that's not going to happen. There's no one resource that will get you to even an intermediate level in a language. And the State Department's FSI estimates are unfortunately pretty accurate fo…

So what's the hack? I'm guessing there isn't one? Asking as it's "hacker news" after all, I remember reading how North Korean agents would watch shows like Friends for hours on end to become familiar with English, is that a hack?

That's part of immersion or comprehensible input, yeah.

Watching lots of hours of something in a language works so long as you know at least enough vocab and grammar to mostly understand it. To get there stuff like spaced repetition seems good

but the "hack" comes down to putting in hours doing all that and doing the groundwork too, essentially. you can only speed it up so much

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#109

Post by HankStallone »

jimbokun wrote: post #92
duothrowaway99 wrote: post #25

Both of my parents are teachers of a European language. They both have phd's in linguistics, and rate very highly with students (who basically adore them). All of this context to say that not once has anyone using Duolingo been able to "test out" of the first ("101") class that they teach. Duolingo self-learners come in with a very unequal mix of vocabulary and... not much else. Unable to use declension properly [0],…

> spend time in a country where the language is spoken and force themselves into situations where they "have" to speak, etc. In the end this is the only one that matters. You can do things before going to that country that will help. But you'll never be close to fluent without taking that final step.

My high school French teacher said if we really wanted to learn a language, go live there for a couple months.

Of course, that's easier said than done (and paid for). But if you can afford the money and time away from home, it's probably the way to go.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#110

Post by qingcharles »

amatecha wrote: post #104
jimbokun wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spend time in a country where the language is spoken and force themselves into situations where they "have" to speak, etc. In the end this is the only one that matters. You can do things before going to that country that will help. But you'll never be close to fluent without taking that final step.

For real. My French always skyrockets every time I take any vacation to France, even for a week. After just one day I'm back to being able to understand a lot of what people are saying and respond pretty comfortably. It's also surprising how quickly the words come back to me after having been away for a year or whatever, with minimal practice between.

Same. I need to practice more when I'm outside the country. I remember last time I'd just arrived in Brussels and got a snack at a cafe and had to check on my phone how to ask for the bill. I feel like a dummy for the first day or so until everything unlocks.
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