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Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

express.co.uk

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Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#101

Post by ronsor »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #79
noir_lord wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK passed an insanely stupid and dangerous (as well as authoritarian) act called Online Safety Act. It's essentially because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet, rather than expecting parents to parent they pushed the cost/risk to companies. Imgur decided they didn't want to foot the cost/risk and pulled out. As a brit, I don't blame them, if I was US based I'd geoblock the UK as well.…

> because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet >90% of parents allow their kids unsupervised access to the internet. That's reality. We've spent the last 30 years begging them to supervise and it hasn't worked, so proposing to do it again is a nonstarter. On the other hand, I completely get why. Expecting parents to know how to operate Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, iOS, Android, Nintendo, Pla…

If the expectation for parents to monitor their children's activity is unfair, then it is even more unfair to ask for everyone else to do it for them.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#102

Post by gjsman-1000 »

shmel wrote: post #100
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet >90% of parents allow their kids unsupervised access to the internet. That's reality. We've spent the last 30 years begging them to supervise and it hasn't worked, so proposing to do it again is a nonstarter. On the other hand, I completely get why. Expecting parents to know how to operate Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, iOS, Android, Nintendo, Pla…

Perhaps they just don't care enough? I got unsupervised internet access when I was 10 and I don't see what's wrong with that. Similarly, video games didn't make me a psycho.

Talk to any child psychologist and they will tell you, immediately, that you just have survivor's bias.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#103

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

elAhmo wrote: post #37

> The ICO also confirmed that companies could not avoid accountability by withdrawing their services in the UK. This is quite a slippery slope. If I host a website in one country, I do not necessarily care where people access my website from. It is not like I actively provide a service to them - they just use internet (decentralised network) to access it. What if I publish a newspaper here, someone takes it where the…

"The ICO also confirmed that companies could not avoid accountability by withdrawing their services in the UK.

Mr Capel said: "We have been clear that exiting the UK does not allow an organisation to avoid responsibility for any prior infringement of data protection law, and our investigation remains ongoing."

When read in context, it's obvious the statement quoted in the HN conmment refers to only to accountability for "prior infringement", i.e., acts committed before withdrawing services in the UK

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#104

Post by gjsman-1000 »

ronsor wrote: post #101
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet >90% of parents allow their kids unsupervised access to the internet. That's reality. We've spent the last 30 years begging them to supervise and it hasn't worked, so proposing to do it again is a nonstarter. On the other hand, I completely get why. Expecting parents to know how to operate Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, iOS, Android, Nintendo, Pla…

If the expectation for parents to monitor their children's activity is unfair, then it is even more unfair to ask for everyone else to do it for them.

If it is an unfair expectation for parents to make sure their children stay buckled inside a moving vehicle at every moment, it is even more unfair to ask everyone else in the car to also pay attention, or the manufacturer to add audible tones for them.

Or, as I might say more bluntly, said who?

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#105

Post by thewebguyd »

phi0 wrote: post #98
iamnothere wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK? How many divisions do they have? Why shouldn’t Russia be allowed to exert their laws extraterritorially? Or Mali? Or Sudan? Or the Iranians? Or China? Or Israel? What you’re asking for is the end of the internet, full stop.

They are! Russia has been fining Google increasingly insane amounts for blocking state media [1]. It's the company's prerogative of whether they want to have a legal entity falling under the country's jurisdiction and whether employees want to travel there and risk being held criminally liable. It's likely simpler to just block access to the country's IP ranges (or ignore!) and move on. [1]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/new…

> It's the company's prerogative of whether they want to have a legal entity falling under the country's jurisdiction

Except in this case, Imgur does not have a legal entity falling under the UK's jurisdiction. They are purely a US based company. It's not like Google, Apple, etc. that have offices in the UK.

This particular fine is the UK trying to extend its jurisdiction to entities that it has no sovereign authority over.

Just because some UK user might visit my website doesn't mean I now have to follow all UK laws if I don't actually do business there, and don't intend to.

Blocking the traffic is how we end up with the balkanization of the internet.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#106

Post by rkagerer »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #95
noir_lord wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trivially which is why VPN's have boomed in the UK since this was brought in. An entirely predictable result given how easy it is to install a VPN vs having to verify yourself constantly to sketchy third parties on every site that has adult content (note: adult meaning adult not pornography..a lot of non-porn adult stuff get caught in the net).

For now. 1. Driver's licenses are becoming a web standard soon. https://github.com/w3c-fedid/digital-credentials Support was added just last week in Safari 26. https://digitalcredentials.dev 2. The UK is keeping a very close eye on VPNs. https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/could-vpn...

Driver's licenses are becoming a web standard soon.

Could you elaborate on this? I for one would never elect to participate.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#107

Post by morkalork »

pixl97 wrote: post #65
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People hosting news sites have often had to geofence to prevent UK residents from accessing their site if they are hosting any kind of reporting of UK court cases that are under embargo or matters that are subject to one of the UK's famous "Super injunctions" [2] …and if the site has no UK assets, how enforceable is the injunction?

I mean, in the case of the US, you board a plane in country X going to country Z, it flies over country Y which is friends with the US. The US has country Y land the plane and has the plane boarded by armed men that drag you off kicking and screaming where you are put in a cage and then shipped to the US.

Iirc this happened to a Russian man who operated an online gambling site when he went on vacation to the Caribbean. The plane he was on had an unscheduled landing in Florida for a mechanical issue and surprise, surprise, the FBI were waiting there to arrest him!

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#108

Post by iamnothere »

Analemma_ wrote: post #99
iamnothere wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they run their own ad network, or do the ad networks take the money from advertisers and cut Imgur a check? Maybe instead of trying to enforce your standards on every little site on the internet, you should just focus on the people who actually have a direct point of contact with money coming from UK businesses. (Yes, the ad networks.) It’s completely absurd to say that some hobbyist would have nexus in the UK bec…

The standard you are proposing here ultimately boils down to "you can do business in a country without being subject to its laws, as long as your commercial transactions with the customers in that country are laundered through a sufficiently convoluted network of international companies like payment processors and ad exchanges". I don't think it should be terribly surprising that states don't subscribe to this view o…

> I don't think it should be terribly surprising that states don't subscribe to this view of sovereignty and jurisdiction.

Well they will have to put up with it, as they have done over the past few decades. Or, alternatively, they can engage in aggressive China-style site blocking. Only the US has significant extraterritorial legal reach.

IMHO, this policy is a transparent effort to forcefully alter the content policy of US companies. It’s more about political influence than it is about “content safety” at home. (Unilateral site blocking, perhaps with an appeals process, would be a much more effective approach for this.) The UK will regret the consequences if they push too forcefully on this.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#109

Post by thorum »

shmel wrote: post #100
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet >90% of parents allow their kids unsupervised access to the internet. That's reality. We've spent the last 30 years begging them to supervise and it hasn't worked, so proposing to do it again is a nonstarter. On the other hand, I completely get why. Expecting parents to know how to operate Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, iOS, Android, Nintendo, Pla…

Perhaps they just don't care enough? I got unsupervised internet access when I was 10 and I don't see what's wrong with that. Similarly, video games didn't make me a psycho.

I also had unsupervised internet as a kid in the 2000s, but the internet is a very different place now with social media, algorithmic feeds, and content that has been carefully designed by bad actors to be as addictive and manipulative as possible. AI is surely not helping so far. I think it must be very difficult to grow up immersed in that environment.

If in a few more years, “video games” evolve into hyper realistic VR worlds with LLM-powered NPCs that act like real people, also designed to maximize engagement, we might need to revisit the risks of exposing kids to that as well.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#110

Post by dreamlayers »

kylecazar wrote: post #16
dreamlayers wrote: post #11

How is one country able to fine businesses in other countries? What legal authority or ability do they have to do anything?

If you do business in a country you have to operate under that country's laws and regulations, regardless of where you are registered. Most commonly it's the EU fining American tech for GDPR violations and related privacy shenanigans.

Being accessible over the internet from a country can't be the same as having a physical presence there. Otherwise, anyone putting any content on the internet needs to comply with the laws of every single country.
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