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Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

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Re: Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

#101

Post by ken47 »

paraknight wrote: post #16

I haven't dug into all the sources, but I think there's a potential confounder here, or maybe even reverse causality. The author seems to assume causation when the studies only indicate correlation. E.g. the first link says "chronic loneliness increases mortality risk" but the actual source says "actual and perceived social isolation are both associated with increased risk for early mortality". So for example, it's p…

And don't forget that physical loneliness, that is, actually being alone, eliminates one major feedback source that something could be wrong with your health, or a source of immediate aid if e.g. you go into cardiac arrest.

Maybe the researcher above touches on these things, but more generally, there should be a standardized probability and statistics exam for ALL aspiring scientific researchers, and a high score should be the minimum cutoff. The influence that a statistically flawed study can have over our collective futures is too dangerous.

Re: Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

#102

Post by fsckboy »

paraknight wrote: post #16

I haven't dug into all the sources, but I think there's a potential confounder here, or maybe even reverse causality. The author seems to assume causation when the studies only indicate correlation. E.g. the first link says "chronic loneliness increases mortality risk" but the actual source says "actual and perceived social isolation are both associated with increased risk for early mortality". So for example, it's p…

>The author seems to assume causation when the studies only indicate correlation.

once I heard Feynmann say in a youtube video that (paraphrasal) "we don't know what causes gravity, we just know that it exists, it's a property of matter"

then I realized, our experiments never show causation, they only show correlation. gravity has 100% (in our experience) correlation to matter. admittedly, that's a pretty good correlation, but for all we know, gravity causes matter. energy too, apparently.

Re: Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

#103

Post by IMSAI8080 »

vasco wrote: post #21
paraknight wrote: post #16

I haven't dug into all the sources, but I think there's a potential confounder here, or maybe even reverse causality. The author seems to assume causation when the studies only indicate correlation. E.g. the first link says "chronic loneliness increases mortality risk" but the actual source says "actual and perceived social isolation are both associated with increased risk for early mortality". So for example, it's p…

My dismissive but practical take is "well yeah there's nobody in the room to call an ambulance when you have the heart attack you'll most likely have", which mindfulness classes and support groups don't help with. There's practical benefits to having people around.

Or related: there's no one to nag you about going to get that funny ache checked out. Men particularly are notoriously reluctant to go to a doctor for various reasons but a worried partner might persuade them.

Re: Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

#104

Post by schoen »

fsckboy wrote: post #102
paraknight wrote: post #16

I haven't dug into all the sources, but I think there's a potential confounder here, or maybe even reverse causality. The author seems to assume causation when the studies only indicate correlation. E.g. the first link says "chronic loneliness increases mortality risk" but the actual source says "actual and perceived social isolation are both associated with increased risk for early mortality". So for example, it's p…

> The author seems to assume causation when the studies only indicate correlation. once I heard Feynmann say in a youtube video that (paraphrasal) "we don't know what causes gravity, we just know that it exists, it's a property of matter" then I realized, our experiments never show causation, they only show correlation. gravity has 100% (in our experience) correlation to matter. admittedly, that's a pretty good corre…

Philosophers have worried for a long time about whether we can actually observe causation.

David Hume was famous for arguing in An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding that we can't observe it and we instead have a "custom" or habit of expecting effects to follow causes.

> After the constant conjunction of two objects—heat and flame, for instance, weight and solidity—we are determined by custom to expect the one from the appearance of the other.

Religious philosophers have sometimes gone to the extreme of occasionalism, where they've maintained that patterns and regularities in nature were just habits or customs that God chooses to follow:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occasionalism

Re: Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

#105

Post by AaronAPU »

trentnix wrote: post #35
softwaredoug wrote: post #3

How much is related to people suffering a medical emergency and nobody being around to help? vs. How much is the actual emotional impact of loneliness?

It doesn't even have to be medical emergencies that go unnoticed. There are other declining health metrics that an independent observer might notice that a person is not aware of or is unwilling to confront. If there's no one to say "you might want to get that checked out", you probably won't get that checked out! No mistake, almost all of us can refer to an anecdote of an elderly relative dying soon after their spou…

There’s another side where the people you’re around downplay any sort of medical concern you have and actually discourage getting help.

So I guess you have:

bad company < no company < good company

Re: Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

#109

Post by mh- »

vkou wrote: post #89
hhmc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once did a course with a paramedic on basic aid. We were discussing choking, which is a condition that really needs a 2nd party to intervene. Someone asked what to do if you live alone (with no close neighbours) - the answer was essentially ‘good luck’

Most people don't know how to do a self-heimlich.

I know how to in theory, and I think I'm probably "above average" at calm-in-crisis, but my confidence that I'd calmly rescue myself via self-heimlich while unable to breathe is not high.

Re: Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%

#110

Post by inciampati »

magneticnorth wrote: post #100
hhmc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once did a course with a paramedic on basic aid. We were discussing choking, which is a condition that really needs a 2nd party to intervene. Someone asked what to do if you live alone (with no close neighbours) - the answer was essentially ‘good luck’

The idea of the heimlich is to put sudden force on the diaphragm and force air upward. You can do that alone by pushing your upper abdomen against a chair back, counter, railing, whatever. Not something I've ever tried, but good to know about in case.

And if you're alone it's worth running with a chair into the street to do it as visibly as possible.
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