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Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

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Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#101

Post by mkozlows »

andrewjf wrote: post #10

I have two moonlanders but wound up giving up because I just couldn't adapt to it. And when writing code, finding the symbols like {, =, }, and other common coding ones was just too difficult to retain muscle memory. I tried many layouts, I tried to make my own, and at the end of the day it was just too different. I wish I had a better experience. Any recommendations?

Try something like a Sinc: https://keeb.io/products/sinc-rev-4-split-staggered-75-keybo...

It's still mechanical, it's still split, it's still QMK programmable, it's got hotswap sockets so you can try different switches... but it's also an extremely normal staggered layout with function keys and everything.

I think it's worth trying the ortho 'n' layers approach, because it has real wins to it; but if you've tried it and don't like it, this is one step closer to normalcy, while still keeping many of the wins.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#102

Post by cosmic_cheese »

scuff3d wrote: post #92
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of folks in the community who land somewhere in the middle, too. 60%/65% are all pretty popular and don't go off the deep end in cutting down keys. I'm personally partial to the HHKB layout, which is like 60% with inspiration from boards associated with the original Mac and with old UNIX boxes.

I got a 75% Keychron a few years ago. Really like it, but I've been considering finding a more portable 65%. The Keychron is great but it's pretty heavy so it's annoying to carry around. Any suggestions?

Can’t recommend anything personally since my boards are mostly group but one-offs (other than the HHKBs), but I think Keychron has low profile mechanical 65% boards if that’s of interest.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#103

Post by tcmart14 »

Just got the ZSA Voyager a couple months ago and love it. It goes with me to and from work. For me, the biggest draw is just the more natural sitting position, I've found that I love having my trackball mouse in the center between the two halves along with a cup of coffee.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#104

Post by barrell »

userbinator wrote: post #77
Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #8

I started having RSI issues 2 years ago, what a way to welcome me to my 30s. It was excruciatingly painful just getting through a workday even with plenty of breaks. I didn't care for building my own keyboard I literally just wanted something to help me not be in pain no matter how weird it looked. I've ended up on a Kinesis advantage 360 pro after spending thousands of dollars on keyboards because I needed something…

I am curious how/if you were formally taught how to type, and whether you hit the keys with sharp and abrupt movements. Of those whom I've seen develop RSI, a common trend I've noticed is they type very "discretely", with a very noticeable pause between each keypress, and use a lot more force than necessary. They were also taught that that was the "correct" way to type, adhere strictly to a sub-optimal fingering patt…

Not op, but had a very similar story. Got crippling RSI to welcome me into my 30s. Couldn’t work for several months and ended up getting a Glove80 because I needed to make a living.

This definitely does not describe me. I typed around 100wpm, sometimes quite loud, often times quite a button mash, and frequently not lifting my fingers quickly after each press. Didn’t have any notion of “correct” typing

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#105

Post by tcmart14 »

Twey wrote: post #73

> proponents of mechanical keyboards say you need fewer keys than a regular keyboard, for _reasons_ That's a bit of a generalization. Mechanical keyboards like the Hyper7 exist that have enough for even the most key-hungry typist. If you want an ergonomic mechanical keyboard with many keys there are also some of those out there, like the Kinesis line or the Glove80. That said, one thing people mean by ‘ergonomic’ is…

It's changed since now Ive got the ZSA Voyager and put my trackball mouse in the center, over all, it is still a small set up. But prior to, I did 60/65% keyboards. A lot of it for me was just a spacing issue. Full size keyboards are nice, but take up a lot of room with a mouse and then wanting to also use a notebook at my desk for notes and designing.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#106

Post by patel011393 »

I solved my RSI with rest, a vertical mouse, and ZSA Moonlanders. I eventually bought one for home use and one for work use with great performance for the past four years. I can’t imagine going back, especially after replacing the key switches to quieter variants.

The split keyboard opens up the middle of my desk to fit an adjustable stand (Parblo and ElevationLab work well). So I can write and draw by hand if I want.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#107

Post by bsmith »

dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

I love my Dygma Defy: https://dygma.com/products/dygma-defy

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#108

Post by el_benhameen »

dimator wrote: post #90
dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but keychron make split keyboards: https://www.keychron.com/collections/split-keyboards I'm not sure if they're in stock, but it's a lovely keyboard with dead simple programmability.

I got one on Amazon for a little over retail and it’s a solid keyboard. I had a knockoff 65 before and you can definitely tell the difference in quality. I believe Microcenter has them in stock if you’re in the Bay.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#109

Post by sorahn »

zie wrote: post #67
dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

You might try the UHK 80: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/uhk80 I have the UHK 60 and I really like it, except as you mentioned no function keys. The software is pretty good, includes a little DSL and you can do pretty much anything you want.

I couldn't quite go for the 60%, but I have friends with the UHK60 and I really liked it as a keyboard.

I popped for the 80 as soon as the shipping times caught up to real time. It's a fantastic keyboard. I haven't gotten any of the clusters for it yet, but I'm very happy with my purchase.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#110

Post by microtonal »

Arrowmaster wrote: post #35
waynesonfire wrote: post #23

Those thumbs are doing a lot of work. Can't imagine that being ergonomic.

Thumbs are one of your stronger fingers. In contrast the pinky is by far the weakest but we have dedicated it to almost every modifier and outlying key. I currently use an Elora from SplitKB so I can't speak to the Moonlanders thumb cluster, but if you find one you like it's a massive difference in how much usage you can get out of your thumbs while typing.

Thumbs can get overuse injuries: https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/thumb-ergo/index.html

I have used ergo keyboards with thumb clusters for several years now. After a while, even though switching to a split ergo keyboard alleviated wrist pains, I developed thumb discomfort.

In the end I solved it by only frequently using the resting key of each thumb (space and backspace). And using the other thumb keys for infrequent things. I use homerow mods to have all modifiers in the alpha block.

if you find one you like it's a massive difference in how much usage you can get out of your thumbs while typing

Until they start to hurt. It can take a few years (just like wrist pains). Be careful!

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