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Just let me select text

aartaka.me

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Re: Just let me select text

#101

Post by catapart »

klausa wrote: post #78
catapart wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't selectable because it breaks the UX for keyboard-only users. Has nothing to do with "thinking" anything. It's about testing with accessibility parameters and knowing* what practical problems occur. If you really need to translate ONE WORD, it's not that onerous to type it. You're bringing edge-case hypotheticals to a discussion about practical functionality.

I needed to translate a button on a Chinese website to buy a train ticket three days ago. How would you have me type it?

Same way I do: with your OS's on-screen keyboard.

Re: Just let me select text

#102

Post by whstl »

catapart wrote: post #100
whstl wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I had one recently. There is a certain page of one of the Bundesagentur für Arbeit websites that doesn't play well with automatic translation. I speak B2 level German, but even then some of the technical terms are still complicated or unknown for me. This included one very long German word that was in a BIG RED button and the text in the big red button was not selectable, in the manner described in the article.

> that doesn't play well with automatic translation. I think I found your problem. Not sure why you think the solution is to make everything work worse for keyboard users.

And you still haven't explained why normal-selectable websites like HN itself are bad for keyboard users.

Re: Just let me select text

#104

Post by catapart »

whstl wrote: post #90
catapart wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand the technical applications that the website is advocating for. I can appreciate that the technicalities are frustrating, but the web works the way it works, for better or worse.

Nope. I am saying the web should work the way it is, like Hacker News does, as I already have brought up elsewhere. You are saying "tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles [...] should, prevent text selection". The article is saying the same thing I am. Basically don't do `user-select: none;` . The example is itself in the article's CSS.

[flagged]

Re: Just let me select text

#105

Post by 1718627440 »

whstl wrote: post #49
catapart wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When text becomes selected, instead of allowing the control to work as expected, the focus cannot move between the elements as expected. It breaks the UX for keyboard-only users. I can appreciate that this is not something everyone has to contend with, but for accessibility's sake, the default behavior should at the very least be mitigated. So you're advocating for either hurting the keyboard experience or injecting…

What's that behavior? Do you have an example of a website where selectable text makes keyboard navigation not possible? Could this be a browser problem? I can tab between links here in HN and it's perfectly also selectable.

Try to navigate inside the article, it doesn't work at all.

Re: Just let me select text

#106

Post by procaryote »

catapart wrote: post #21

As a web dev, I fully agree with this, but with a huge exception: clickable text. Anything that is meant to be read as content should absolutely, without fail, be selectable and copyable (assuming appropriate permissions). But stuff like tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles - things meant for the user to click on - can, and usually should , prevent text selection. It is super annoying to be clicking back a…

> But stuff like tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles - things meant for the user to click on - can, and usually should, prevent text selection. It is super annoying to be clicking back and forth through tabs only to have some text erroneously highlight and then stay that way.

No.

Outlook mail for example is full of your principle, which means copying a mail address becomes a «hover over the not-selectable mail address to pop up a contact card, scroll down the contact card to where the mail address shows up again, but is again unselectable, click the "copy to clipboard" icon»

Just make text selectable.

Re: Just let me select text

#107

Post by klausa »

catapart wrote: post #101
klausa wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I needed to translate a button on a Chinese website to buy a train ticket three days ago. How would you have me type it?

Same way I do: with your OS's on-screen keyboard.

Congratulations on being fluent in Hanzi, I guess, but that does not solve a problem for the vast majority of the users.

Re: Just let me select text

#108

Post by whstl »

catapart wrote: post #104
whstl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I am saying the web should work the way it is, like Hacker News does, as I already have brought up elsewhere. You are saying "tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles [...] should, prevent text selection". The article is saying the same thing I am. Basically don't do `user-select: none;` . The example is itself in the article's CSS.

[flagged]

You are the one saying it breaks keyboard usage, and still haven't given an example of why and how.

Re: Just let me select text

#109

Post by sbuttgereit »

catapart wrote: post #21

As a web dev, I fully agree with this, but with a huge exception: clickable text. Anything that is meant to be read as content should absolutely, without fail, be selectable and copyable (assuming appropriate permissions). But stuff like tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles - things meant for the user to click on - can, and usually should , prevent text selection. It is super annoying to be clicking back a…

A case can be made for graphic like elements like buttons, but for text: treat it like text even if it's clickable.

In the Web version of Outlook, there are regularly times where the location of an appointment is a street address. That text is typically clickable. But the click action doesn't correspond to the choice of mapping service I might want to use in any one instance or to the fact that I might have other actions, like copying the address into another email/sms/etc. Outlook followed your philosophy. You can't select and copy that text, save for going through several auxiliary clicks just to get to a spot where you can. It's the most annoying behavior I can imagine.

That you think that you sitting in a meeting room talking it over with colleagues, or perhaps I'm a meeting in your own mind can assign legitimate uses and not, when something other than say security might be at stake, is just wrongheaded.

And by the way, that address being the link that it is is great 60%, 70% of the time. But when it's not it's clearly a design mistake.

Re: Just let me select text

#110

Post by petsfed »

catapart wrote: post #53
whstl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% disagree. Not everyone is fluent in every language, and not every website works perfectly with the browser's translator. There will be situations where people will want to translate that ONE word that is actually in a button or tab, and isn't selectable because someone thought they knew better.

isn't selectable because it breaks the UX for keyboard-only users. Has nothing to do with "thinking" anything. It's about testing with accessibility parameters and knowing* what practical problems occur. If you really need to translate ONE WORD, it's not that onerous to type it. You're bringing edge-case hypotheticals to a discussion about practical functionality.

Yeah, because fuck people who require additional accessibility options, right?

On top of the real concerns around otherwise selectable text in a writing system not supported by the user's keyboard, there's also the issue of whether or not they can even operate enough of a keyboard to transcribe whatever text they want to translate.

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